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Thread: More Harder to Kill Evidence

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewLewis View Post
    Everyone falls once in a while. Having an ingrained habit of falling in a way that disperses the force is a good thing.

    BJJ has saved me more times from ice than from being in a fight.
    Same here 100% in regards to bjj

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Stepic View Post
    I'm interested in learning how to fall. Hurling, do you take clients?
    My apologies. I missed this until this morning in the brown fog of the shit storm that got brewed up. Yes. But you'll need to travel to Murphysboro, IL or somewhere reasonably close. I can and will travel some moderate distance. I'll even do it for free. The initial lesson will take an hour or so, depending on your ability to overcome the natural lifelong fear of falling, your ability to learn more motor skills, and you ability to relax.

    This has become an interesting thread. Simply commenting on an adult male's unfortunate falling experience got brought back to an earlier discussion about teaching the elderly to fall. And not by me. That, as far as I was concerned was done and over, with both sides remaining unconvinced by the other. But no, it had to be dug up and displayed.

    I'm trying here to limit the number of syllables in the words I use and to keep this as close to a 5th grade reading level and still get things across to the readers. It never occurred to me that my other posts were hard to understand by Texicans and perhaps some others. So no more vocabulary lessons.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewLewis View Post
    You're inferring a lot about what I said that isn't true.

    I will try to clarify. If, as you bring up, an 80 year old woman came to me because she had fallen and does not want to fall again, I would get her as strong as I could and never mention learning how to fall.

    You can argue there's a priority of resources, but to say that creating a reflex in the event of a fall is a waste of time is just wrong. And again, I'm not saying it has to be done one or the other, which you have implied multiple times.
    You've also implied that control of the body has to be conscious and deliberate which it doesn't. Fake punch a guy in the head and see what his hands do. They'll do something, and he certainly didn't plan it consciously. Why is that? And why do kickboxers do something different from an untrained individual?

    And yes, you can teach someone how to do something without them directly performing the identical action. Same as you can get someone's 1RM squat to go up without ever having them do a 1RM.

    To be clear, if anyone is reading this thinking "I need to push my grandma down so she can learn how to fall," don't do that.
    Your confusion is understandable, given the use of your name in the lead sentence. But then when enough eccentricities start spinning around and colliding, when they escape the spraying spittle can hit some other targets that were not the main focus of hate, shit, and discontent. As I read your response, and the comments of a few other posters both before and after the post above, a few things are shared yours, theirs, and my own thoughts.

    For instance, it isn't either/or. It's both, and as I had said in an earlier thread, strength first. That is the best counter to preventing a fall. But, shit happens even with a strong person. Like vomit on a tile or concrete floor. Then too, your final remark about grandma is also well taken. I know that you weren't attributing that approach to me, and I completely agree with you.

    I gotta say, this thread has also been a learning experience for me in some ideas and concepts that seem to contradict each other. Given the passion with which training the elderly in strength is rightly promoted in the Kingdom of SS, the fatalism about not bothering with some teaching on falling strikes me as eccentric. But, maybe that's just the nature of the this place these days. I suppose if it bothered me all that much, I'd just quit posting here and move on. It just seems out of character from all that I thought I knew about this place.

    Then too, there's the discovery that the Objector-In-Chief has picked up some Japanese along the way. Impressive, dojo and Sensei. I guess China Grove with it's sheriff and his buddies with their Samurai swords have spread their influence around more than I thought.

    Finally, as I review all the posts in this thread, it's somewhat interesting that all those who have mentioned that they learned something about how to fall, do not dismiss it out of hand. Sure, would it be better to teach someone when they are younger and more sound? Absolutely! But then the same is true for getting someone strong young and having them maintain their strength through the course of their lives.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfsully View Post
    As everyone knows, you can't really dust for vomit.
    "As long as there's the sex and drugs I could do without the rock and roll."

  4. #34
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    I think Rip is 100% right on this.

    But, in addition, if there is any chance that someone might be able to reflexively mitigate the consequences of their slip, some training in how to hit the ground properly might help them. Im not saying Granny needs to take judo. I'm talking hypothetically. For example, if we were able to engineer 1,000 slips and falls of 20 men (5'11", 200 lbs, 30 years old males, 15% bodyfat, etc. ) and 10 of them had "martial arts/wrestling based fall training from an early age through 30" and the other 10, while equally active (lets say they played baseball, soccer and basketball or some such shit) with no fall training, dont you think there would be SOME difference in outcome? Or would the consequences of these 20,000 slips and falls really be statistically the same?

    Even though I agree with Rip, thers got to be some difference in outcome, no?

  5. #35
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    To the people advocating for fall training, have you successfully trained geriatrics to fall correctly?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Chapman View Post
    To the people advocating for fall training, have you successfully trained geriatrics to fall correctly?
    Hurling? Your numbers?

  7. #37
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    I personally like Grandmaster 潘清副‘s method.

    This is a how a highly trained fall should look (2:50 onward):

    YouTube

    or

    YouTube

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    My apologies. I missed this until this morning in the brown fog of the shit storm that got brewed up. Yes. But you'll need to travel to Murphysboro, IL or somewhere reasonably close.
    How about videos of you correctly falling?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Hurling? Your numbers?
    If you count 60+ as geriatric, three so far during the last 10 years or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yngvi View Post
    2. Martial arts instructor on a strength forum has been advocating to train the elderly to fall correctly for months. Not sure if he is completely serious or not, but he actually may view opposition to elderly fall training as an affront to martial arts in general.
    Nope. Lots of people think that chop socky shit I practice and teach is nonsense and all you need is a gun and some good ole all-in rasslin'. If I let that kind of "thinking" bother me, I'd have given it all up at age 15 a few weeks after I started in Shorei Goju Karate in 1965.

    Now granted, traditional martial arts and their sports counterparts like Judo can leave something to be desired in saving your ass in a real attack, but a practitioner (and that is what I am, not the expert in ooga-booga I have been called here) needs to learn how to adapt to reality with no rules or protective gear.

  10. #40
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    starting strength coach development program
    How many of these were 80-year-old women?

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