More Harder to Kill Evidence

[Mark Rippetoe]

In the OP, if Gadders didn't stick his arm out, he likely would have landed on his face or right temple.

Thanks to his martial arts background, he reacted correctly, thus saving his life!

[novicejay]

You can teach people to take a fall they are expecting. You cannot teach people to fall when they are not expecting it. Duh. Is a boxing match different than a sucker punch? You cannot be this dumb.

Coach,

One of the things I admired about you is you always were willing to stay in your lane, i.e., when you did not know something you would say so.

Let me assure you that when you get thrown in Judo at about a bazillion mph you have no idea you are about to get thrown. You can teach people to fall when they are not expecting it, you can train them to do it. It happens faster than the blink of an eye. If you didn't know how to fall correctly you'd be in the hospital and probably permanently injured.

Now, does this mean that learning falling is better than getting strong for old people? No, I don't think so. But, learning how to fall correctly can be taught and muscle memory of falling can be learned.

In the OP, if Gadders didn't stick his arm out, he likely would have landed on his face or right temple.

That's a different type of fall and yes, despite what anyone thinks falling can be taught and learned. I have seen it for decades now.

[Mark Rippetoe]

One of the things I admired about you is you always were willing to stay in your lane, i.e., when you did not know something you would say so.

Ha.

Let me assure you that when you get thrown in Judo at about a bazillion mph you have no idea you are about to get thrown. You can teach people to fall when they are not expecting it, you can train them to do it. It happens faster than the blink of an eye. If you didn't know how to fall correctly you'd be in the hospital and probably permanently injured.

Let me get this straight: when you put on your gi and get on the mat with another Far Eastern Martial Arts guy, you don't know you're going to be thrown and are not prepared to be thrown, even when you're practicing throwing, being thrown, falling, etc.? Set, setting, context -- none of this places you in the "how to fall" zone more effectively than you are when you are walking through a train station in love with your phone and a text message from your girlfriend and slip in a puddle of puke? Do you really think that the circumstances of the fall are irrelevant to the outcome of the fall? That a Far Eastern Martial Arts Master can react differently in a tenth of a second while focused on something completely unrelated to falling than anybody else in these circumstances? And even if he (she?) can, how does this apply to your grandmother?

Do you believe that Bruce Lee can punch you in the chest from a distance of one inch and three days later you suddenly die?

[Joel Chapman]

That's a different type of fall and yes, despite what anyone thinks falling can be taught and learned. I have seen it for decades now.

How many types of falls are there? What is the advice for each of these types? You gave a three point set of directions on what to teach for proper falling technique. I pointed out what would have likely happened to the OP if he followed your advice, and you say it was a different type of fall?

[Yngvi]

Yes. In Judo, you have 80 year olds stick taking falls.

But, even if you can't teach it or the client doesn't want to learn it, at a minimum, every coach on here and every coach in martial arts should teach clients some basics:

1. tuck your chin when falling
2. once you are going to fall, don't stick your arm out to prevent your fall
3. blow your air out when falling

Without practice, they will probably violate all three of those basics but at least you've told them.

People have been falling for a million years. Perhaps the safest way to fall in most situations is what people already instinctually do?

Ha.

Do you believe that Bruce Lee can punch you in the chest from a distance of one inch and three days later you suddenly die?

That is just silly; Bruce Lee is dead. I would be terrified of receiving this blow from Bruce Lee's ghost.

[stef]

Learning not to get hurt in a context where you know you're going to be interacting physically, where your balance and mass are going to be challenged, is far removed from a context where you aren't expecting to fall or situations where there isn't time to react. Cats don't always land on their feet, despite what you've heard repeated all your life. And none of us is kitteh.

Reacting to losing balance is a reflex. You learn something about landing by falling, but people have a range of physical abilities and abilities to learn. Those will poor general physical ability - slower reaction times, uncoordinated etc - are at a disadvantage. Those are physically inactive are at a disadvantage. Those who weren't physically active during development - when you're growing and developing patterns of movement and automatic patterns of movement that will follow you the rest of your life - are at an enormous disadvantage.

Push that whole curve well to the left and you have old people. People with already deeply ingrained movement patterns, who are far less able to learn, who are slower, weaker, more brittle, less flexible, who carry a lifetime of accumulated injuries, and most importantly - who are unable to afford the risk of practice - real practice, real falling, not contrived situations - aren't good candidates to start learning lessons that they missed in childhood.

In contrast, getting stronger, more flexible, and developing balance are safe and effective under the bar. Minimal risk, high reward kills the opposite (even if pushing the elderly out on the ice seems to resonate with the DNA of some here).

[markus1]

Stef, that first paragraph is true but only to a point. Training is contrived. Thats the very nature of it. And yes training undertaken later in life will not invoke the same response and benefit as in youth but if movement patterns are so ingrained as you say then one cannot possibly learn to squat under the bar in later life can they? See how backwards this argument becomes? Everyone can learn part of something no matter their age (within reason of course). The video was of a 48 year bloke remember. Hardley over the hill.

I might just be biased after years of martial arts in my early life. Its stood me in amazing stead to avoid injury in my opinion only. I've had some nice falls both in sports and just in life including for example falling through a 4m ceiling not once but twice and somehow I always manage some reactionary cat like maneuver to lessen the damage. Friends will say it was just 'complete arse' but I suggest otherwise. I seriously must be on my last life by now. I touch wood writing this.

I'm not even going to comment if strength training is better than learning to fall training because it's a pointless argument to have.

[Mark E. Hurling]

How many types of falls are there? What is the advice for each of these types? You gave a three point set of directions on what to teach for proper falling technique. I pointed out what would have likely happened to the OP if he followed your advice, and you say it was a different type of fall?

There are three types of falls:
* Side falls, left or right.
* Back falls.
* Front falls.

Each type of fall has a slightly different response taught. I outlined a multi-step process for teaching each of them in the last thread on this subject.

There are a few other types of falls taught in martial arts, but they aren't that useful to the general population. The rolling forward fall is an example of such.

[Joel Chapman]

There are three types of falls:
* Side falls, left or right.
* Back falls.
* Front falls.

Each type of fall has a slightly different response taught. I outlined a multi-step process for teaching each of them in the last thread on this subject.

There are a few other types of falls taught in martial arts, but they aren't that useful to the general population. The rolling forward fall is an example of such.

Can you point me to the thread?

[Mark E. Hurling]

Can you point me to the thread?

I can, and here is the post that describes how to teach the falls. Physical Function and Aging

This is how it's done Judo as well as Jujitsu. In my own experiences, falls are not taught in the striking arts I learned.