Starting Strength Radio #31: Why We Are Right About Everything Starting Strength Radio #31: Why We Are Right About Everything - Page 3

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Thread: Starting Strength Radio #31: Why We Are Right About Everything

  1. #21
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    • wichita falls texas june seminar date
    • woodmere new york july seminar date
    • las vegas nevada august seminar
    I need charts and diagrams! LOL

    For curious parties when I started training for the Marathon I was roughly 260-270lbs and could squat around 455, DL about 495 and bench 365. After training for about 9 months and running the marathon I was about 220 body weight squatted about 405 benched about 315 and DL about 455. I was running about 20 miles a week towards the end and lifting still 3 days a week. Though at the time I ran a bro split (body part split). I ate a ton and rested a ton but it was impossible to make any strength gains at that point.

    I ended up running it in a little under 4 hr 30 min. Although in my training I was on pace to run in a little under 4 hr. It was hot as heck that day in June for some reason and the heat slowed me down/ Made me want to die even more.

    I still have dreams to run another one and get under that 4 hr mark.

    In my group of trainees. There were 4 of us. It was quite literally the smallest guy with the most running experience was the fastest. Followed by the next smallest dude, followed by the next smallest and last was me the heaviest but by far the strongest. None of the other dudes were interested in lifting. My buddy (the fastest) ran the Marathon also he got around 2hr 45 min. He weighed about 175 BW. It was about his 5th marathon and said squatting would not help him run faster.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zappey1 View Post
    My buddy (the fastest) ran the Marathon also he got around 2hr 45 min. He weighed about 175 BW. It was about his 5th marathon and said squatting would not help him run faster.
    Hey, he said so! With evidence like this, I stand corrected.

  3. #23
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    I mean this with all the respect for you as a weight training coach in the world Mark. I think you are probably one of the top coaches in the world for weight training. That being said I would not look to a weight training coach if I were to train for another marathon.

    At least my buddy has lost of experience and training in how to train and run a marathon. He might have known very little about weight training but his running seemed to be doing just fine.

    I guess to each their own.

    Mark maybe you could have a serious marathoner on the show and talk with them about what they think on this topic?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zappey1 View Post
    I mean this with all the respect for you as a weight training coach in the world Mark. I think you are probably one of the top coaches in the world for weight training. That being said I would not look to a weight training coach if I were to train for another marathon.
    It seems impossible that you are dense enough to construe that what I meant about a runner getting his squat up to bodyweight for a set of 5 is the same thing as my advocating for marathon athletes to go to a strength coach for training for a race. You CANNOT be this dense, because your posting history has yet to include anything this bizarre a misconstruction.

    At least my buddy has lost of experience and training in how to train and run a marathon. He might have known very little about weight training but his running seemed to be doing just fine.
    Astonishing. You are in fact not a higher-order thinker.

    Mark maybe you could have a serious marathoner on the show and talk with them about what they think on this topic?
    Why? We already know what they think.

  5. #25
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    Sorry Rip. I don't believe things I'm told on the internet without being shown substantial data to back it up. I form my own conclusions based off evidence presented and my own life experiences.

    Sorry coach I'm not a lemming that blindly follows.
    Nice talk.

  6. #26
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    You're not a thinker, Zapp.

  7. #27
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    For a half-decent runner, a marathon isn't actually a very-submaximal slog. One is running nearly as fast as possible under the constraint of a short, efficient stride. So, even from an abstract perspective, strength is important.

    Marathon runners object to squats not because of weight concerns, but for the same reason as everyone else - squats are hard and unfamiliar. Some of running training is crude strength training, with curved treadmills and hills rather than barbells.

    Since no one accepts any observation without "data" - I have run a 3:06, and have 375x5 sq / 455x5 dl / 315 bp / 215 pr, all at ~187 lbs.

  8. #28
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    So the 230 pound thick bodied guy was the slowest runner if the group? That settles it! Marathon running twinks should never squat!

  9. #29
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    Here's my anecdotal evidence. I lifted for around 3.5 months on a NLP, but recently started focusing much heavier on running and HIIT out of necessity, and at working weights that would otherwise be left to NLP for a few more months. Turns out that military standards are pretty damn unyielding. I did a particularly intensive program up front that had two strength training days per week, two conditioning sessions and one timed 2 mi. run. I used heavy sled dragging for conditioning. I used macros to determine a rough calorie count and exceeded that by ~5-10%, but structured the diet to be very protein heavy, carbs consumed "strategically" per daily work load, and fats on an "as-they-come" basis (but I didn't add that 3 tablespoons of butter to my rice).

    Outcome:
    -In 4 weeks my 2 mi time went from ~29:30 to just over 18:00 with exactly 2 mi of running per week.
    -My body weight dropped from 248 to 232
    -I was able to consistently add ~10 lbs per week to my lifts
    -I went from 48" waist line to 43"
    -My testable metrics for pushups, chinups, situps and AMRAP (did not alter the AMRAP week to week) all increased - even when testing while fatigued

    Importantly, while recovering from a strained left quadriceps, I continued to lose body fat. I did not lose a significant amount of strength outside of the affected injury, and even that was not hugely detrimental. Around 4 weeks of recovery/rehab protocol and I am no worse for wear, back to full training, and still improving on body composition and performance.

    My conclusion was that strength training prepared me to run, but not to run quickly, efficiently or with regard to conditioning my feet and lower legs. Obviously, this is because the stress of lifting isn't capable of causing adaptations or acquire skills that are specific to running. Strength training can't prepare you for everything, and not completely for anything that is not strength. But that's not what the NLP claims to do in the first place, and it still provides benefit more broadly than a pure running program does. Jobs like rescue, fire, policing and combat arms only increase the broad criteria because of the extremely physical and uncertain nature of the occupations -- the same conditions exist, ubiquitously, in your daily physical existence (if at a reduced volume and/or intensity). Your body will always adapt to the stress profile you present it as long as you don't exceed your capacity to recover, and if you're only running you should have enough room in your programming for at list a little strength training.

    Sound about right?

  10. #30
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Zappey1 View Post
    For curious parties when I started training for the Marathon I was roughly 260-270lbs and could squat around 455, DL about 495 and bench 365. After training for about 9 months and running the marathon I was about 220 body weight squatted about 405 benched about 315 and DL about 455. I was running about 20 miles a week towards the end and lifting still 3 days a week. Though at the time I ran a bro split (body part split). I ate a ton and rested a ton but it was impossible to make any strength gains at that point....
    Thank you for providing the numbers, even though it has extended the thread and may have opened it up to misinterpretation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    You're not a thinker, Zapp.
    We all have had to work through misconceptions.

    Let's see if he can think his way through it over time.


    Hopefully, the thread is done now.

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