Is supporting the program that produces the best results dogmatic? Of course not, I just don't care for mediocre results and the methods used to get them. No one else should either.
Is supporting the program that produces the best results dogmatic? Of course not, I just don't care for mediocre results and the methods used to get them. No one else should either.
Mark I love SS and believe it can do great things. However I don't think your right about the Marathon stuff. I have ran a marathon and can say that being able to squat a decent amount did not help me at all. In fact it may have hurt my time running and the running training killed my strength gains.
I hope you were being facetious
And before any wisenheimer ask why I would run a marathon in the first place. It was a bucket list item!
If you were training for a marathon you shouldn’t have been training like a strength athlete. When strength training becomes a detriment to performance In your sport you stop training for strength. Bodyweight also would have been a factor because marathoners are light by default.
The point is you make the easy rank novice gains with the program and then coast on strength training. Adding gobs of bodyweight is not something a marathoner should do and not doing so will shorten the lifespan of linear progression.
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I have anecdotal evidence that the biggest factor effecting my time was not how much I squatted but how much I weighed. The more weight I lost the faster and easier it came for me to run. Preferable that weight would be fat but I also lost a ton of muscle (I know because all my lifts went down). That is why top marathon runners have zero or very little strength programming in their training and want to be as slim as possible.
Moving 5 lbs of muscle is going to slow you down more then it is going to help when you are running that far.
I like data. Rip did not present any data or even anecdotal evidence in his video. That would make what he presented in the video a Theory. One that in my own experience and training is not accurate. In order to change my mind I need to be presented with evidence and data. Peer reviewed case studies would be preferable. Or at the very least data collected from athletes that him or a SS coach trained.
I explained this to a troll on the forum a few months ago. The correct answer is that the ideal strength level for a marathoner will depend on several physiological factors, with V02 max being the limiting factor. Strength training vs marathon performance is a bell curve shaped correlation; It only seemed binary to you because you started as a relatively specialized, highly trained strength athlete well to the right side of the bell curve.
Could you share your numbers with us? Before and after body weight, squat, running times etc?
I read that post and don't want this to thread to turn into a shit show like that was!
Strength and Endurance
You are right that I was over trained strength wise for it to provide a benefit to my running. But if you look at the top marathon runners they are all supper skinny. If you Google a marathon training plan chances are it will have very little strength training. There is a reason why.
It is not my burden to prove or disprove Mark's Theory. It is for the person presenting the theory to provide the burden of proof. Have a marathon runner on the show that has benefited from strength training. Present some data from a study.
Otherwise my anecdotal evidence is just as valid. Which even though my sample size was small (myself and a few training buddies) showed the opposite of the theory presented.
You presented a theory:I asked you for data, and you asked me to prove my point again without explaining yours -- why getting a 125lb marathon athlete up to 132 with a bodyweight squat is going to slow him down. Your experience is not relevant, since you were not a 125lb marathoner, and your point is silly, since you are not "carrying" the extra 7 pounds of muscle -- it is carrying you. My theory has been proven countless times in many different situations. Yours is merely an observation of what has happened, and is an appeal to an inaccurate description of the phenomenology.Moving 5 lbs of muscle is going to slow you down more then it is going to help when you are running that far.