Strength training with cardio

[markus1]

For the group, my fastest 2 mile run in the past ten years was a 13:45. I did it with zero running before hand, but, at a bodyweight of 170# or so, I squatted 475 for a set of 5. Knocking on the door of a 3x BW squat did more for my running than actually running.

Thats fine Will. A key part to your running speed here is the fact you were 170. But will the vast majority squat 475 at that body weight and if they're instead doing it at 220 then that bodyweight will likely make running sub 7 minute miles something that takes more than just 4 training sessions for most. Rushing towards any sort of running goal whilst sitting at a SS endorsed proper bodyweight (ie220) is likely going to end in a case of tendonitis, a limp, and a failed test. If on the other hand the goal/test is a only a couple of 10 minute miles then sure like Rip says run 3 times and your prepped but then 10 minute miles ain't running, its jogging and it looks pathetic.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Don't let this distract you from the fact that in 1966, I scored four touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against my old nemesis, "Spare Tire" Dixon.

I mean this in the kindest way. But this is the internet. This is why I was hesitant to post any stories with out video evidence to back it up. This exact thing is why I started recording my lifts.

You're right, Zap, Dr. Morris might be lying about his running.

Thats fine Will. A key part to your running speed here is the fact you were 170. But will the vast majority squat 475 at that body weight and if they're instead doing it at 220 then that bodyweight will likely make running sub 7 minute miles something that takes more than just 4 training sessions for most. Rushing towards any sort of running goal whilst sitting at a SS endorsed proper bodyweight (ie220) is likely going to end in a case of tendonitis, a limp, and a failed test. If on the other hand the goal/test is a only a couple of 10 minute miles then sure like Rip says run 3 times and your prepped but then 10 minute miles ain't running, its jogging and it looks pathetic.

You don't know what you're talking about. You seem to know what is supposed to be, but you don't know.

[Zappey1]

[QUOTE=Mark Rippetoe;1755771]You're right, Zap, Dr. Morris might be lying about his running.


I did not mean that he was being dishonest about his run time/squat. Just that it was not helpful in providing advice. Other than for n=1 data. It was just about as helpful as Al's errr.. I mean my most glories moment in high school athletics.

No practical advice was given and even the n=1 data given could not be verified. I think if I'm going to get called out on providing practical helpful advice using n=1 data then others providing n=1 data with out practical advice should also.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I don't think you're very bright, Zappey. My advice earlier in this thread is based on 40+ years of training people, and is considerably better than n=1. Dr. Morris was agreeing with me based on his personal experience.

[Zappey1]

I don't think you're very bright, Zappey. My advice earlier in this thread is based on 40+ years of training people, and is considerably better than n=1. Dr. Morris was agreeing with me based on his personal experience.

Coach Rip I might not have 40 years training experience. But I do have lots of experience passing PT test to qualify for things including police academies.

Here is another story for you. When I was in the Navy I wanted to try out for the Navy Seals (as many young sailors dream about). To submit a competitive application you had to get your 1.5 miles down to 10:30.

At this time I weighed about 220 could squat low 400's for a 5 rep with decent form, deadlift mid 400 and bench about 315. I could not get my run time down to below 11 minutes. My strength increased, endurance increased my pull ups improved but I could not get that run time down.

As time went on my squat, deadlifts and bench all went up in weight. You know what did not improve by much?

My run time.

I think the best I ended up running was about 10:45 or so. In hindsight I can see that it did not matter how much I could lift or how far I could run I should have been training for speed at least once a week.

In one of your books you even talk about lifting and sports. You say you have to practice the skills required for that specific sport. Does strength help? Sure it does but if you do not practice the specific skill required then no matter how strong you are you will suck at the sport.

Like it or not running is a sport the requires specific practice to achieve a decent level at it.

If you think I'm not "very bright" because I don't fan boy over everything you say. Then maybe you should reevaluate what you think is very bright.

[Noah Ebner]

If I keep my squat in the mid 400s or higher, I can run two miles without any train up in the low to mid 14s. If I let squat get weaker, I run a little slower. At most, I’ll run two times before the PT test. When someone makes me do something stupid like run 5 miles for morale, I am easily able to keep up with the masses. If I were to run a few more times before the test, I may run in the high 13s, but I just choose not to.

Toddlers should not be lifting such heavy weight...

[Will Morris]

Thats fine Will. A key part to your running speed here is the fact you were 170. But will the vast majority squat 475 at that body weight and if they're instead doing it at 220 then that bodyweight will likely make running sub 7 minute miles something that takes more than just 4 training sessions for most. Rushing towards any sort of running goal whilst sitting at a SS endorsed proper bodyweight (ie220) is likely going to end in a case of tendonitis, a limp, and a failed test. If on the other hand the goal/test is a only a couple of 10 minute miles then sure like Rip says run 3 times and your prepped but then 10 minute miles ain't running, its jogging and it looks pathetic.

At 5’5”, maybe 5’6” on a good day, I’m decently heavy and body proportions are probably similar to someone who is 6’ and 215-225. The key here is power to weight ratio. Being decently strong relative to my bodyweight has served me well. If I were to be 5’5” and 225 with a 600# squat, I wouldn’t run as well.

He is right. I have an entire Instagram account dedicated to me lifting fake weights and lying about the weight I put up. And, there is certainly no one who is on these boards that have ever seen me perform any even marginally impressive physical feat.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Coach Rip I might not have 40 years training experience. But I do have lots of experience passing PT test to qualify for things including police academies. .

This is precisely what "n = 1" means.

[Will Morris]

Toddlers should not be lifting such heavy weight...

That's some awesome shade being thrown here. Damn. That is really good.

[Zappey1]

This is precisely what "n = 1" means.

Things are just going in circles now. I'm aware of what you mean by n=1 data. What prompted my second round of posting was that you seemed to say that @Will Morris data was not n=1 data?

I could be "not that bright" but it seems to me that it was n=1 data also. The only difference was that it collaborated with what you were saying so it was okay or more relevant.

It is not my intention to get into a pissing match. Maybe I took things the wrong way?

The advice has been passed along it is for the OP to weigh the relevant data presented and do what he thinks is best for him.