Pullovers

[Kansan]

My point is that the weight you use on the pullover machine really shouldn't be that far off of your bench press. However, that weight would be essentially impossible to do with a barbell pullover, so to get the full benefit of the movement a machine is necessary.

[Mark Rippetoe]

So a 405 bencher should be able to do 385 on the Nautilus machine, 495/475, 585/555, etc. Right. The stack on that machine weighed 300. I wonder how it's even possible to bench 400 without it.

[Mark E. Hurling]

With no disrespect intended to any, main reason Ye Olde Tyme lifters used to praise pullovers (the free weight variety anyway) was because they believed they had a big effect on expanding the rib cage.

But.

Their target market for this approach were the young underweight guys. Teens mainly. Combined with lotsa milk and high rep breathing squats followed up with the pullovers. In rough chronological order it was Eells, Berry, Hise, Rader who promoted these. Even Grimek had a version of them using a firm grip and pull down on a door frame. But then he was a Hoffman acolyte and the Genius of York had to go a different way.

I gotta say, the stretch aspect described was eye opening and didn't occur to me. Seems like a fair idea if you need that. I may give those a try myself, given my own immobile shoulders.

Anyway, the older guys here who want to do them would be well advised to know that once you get out of the teens stretching or expanding your rib cage was recognized even back by the old guys. Always assuming that it had any use even for the target teen market. Maybe the medicos who inhabit this forum might weigh in on this.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It was part and parcel with 20-rep "breathing squats" and was always bullshit. Folklore. This industry has always been folklore-driven. Let's not perpetuate that, okay? Know what makes your ribcage bigger? Squatting 700 x 5.

[Kansan]

Definitely not saying that I can bench X amount because I can pullover Y amount. It's more the other way around, ie, my pullover goes up if my bench goes up. Also, I do not claim any type of direct correlation on the lifts for anyone, just giving my personal experience. And, as I stated earlier, it is totally possible to get strong without complicating things. Pullovers are not necessary to get strong. I have never seen it claimed otherwise.
The pullover machine I use is a plate loaded hammer strength knock-off, so the weight stack is not an issue.
Jim, the original poster, asked about opinions about the pullover, so here is mine (for the machine version)...
Since I began using it my shoulders and back feel better. According to my wife and friends my torso looks bigger, and my bench has continued to improve.
So, not necessary, but not detrimental either, and I have personally found using the machine (not the other variations) helpful.