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Thread: SS Radio #35: The Old Guy Episode

  1. #11
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    This was one of my favorite episodes, probably because I just turned 57.

    Although I was "just" an Irish Catholic kid, I had the privilege of working in an Italian pastry shop in New Yawk as one of my first jobs as a teenager. I still have fond memories of my time there: animated gesturing; enthusiastic cursing, but in a Romantic language; and wondering how much espresso those men in the front drank on a daily basis.

    ...and if you couldn't find something (like, "Where's that powdered sugar?"), and made the mistake of actually asking a co-worker, the answer was always the same: "Mezza coscia!" [roughly, "between your legs").

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Browndog View Post
    Question: In your opinion, how much of a difference in outcomes is there from adhering to a "minimal effective dose" regimen vs a "maximal recoverable dose" regimen?
    There are a lot of ways to answer this. Based on a lot of experience training Masters (and myself), the word that springs to mind on this particular evening is:

    Tendinopathy.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Sullivan View Post
    Tendinopathy.
    Which, once acquired, is very damned hard to get rid of.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Sullivan View Post
    There are a lot of ways to answer this. Based on a lot of experience training Masters (and myself), the word that springs to mind on this particular evening is:

    Tendinopathy.
    Thanks for the input Sully, and Mark.

    Not looking to be a troll here, I'm simply trying to settle this question I've been struggling with:

    Does the "minimalist" approach work for both the masters lifter who is training to "maintain" and for the masters lifter who is "competing"?

    If I were younger, I'd run both styles of programming and make an informed decision from there. But I don't have that kind of time, and I'd like to be as efficient in my training as is possible with the time I do have.

    I was hoping to piggyback on your years of experience.

    ...and perhaps there is no "one correct approach" to my question, it all depends on the individual. If that's the case, I'll just muddle on, eeking out small gains year over year...progress is progress.

    Thanks for your time.

  5. #15
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    It has been my experience that old guys who do lots of sets and reps end up with sore joints. And that once your joints get inflamed, they like to stay that way. You have a few younger "coaches" (who actually just sell template programs) telling you that there is no evidence that older lifters respond poorly to higher training volumes. I'm telling you that there is lots of evidence. Go ahead and add to it. Fine with me. As long as you pay your gym dues and enjoy yourself, I'm happy for you.

  6. #16
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    Rip,

    Merry Christmas and thanks for the old guy video. A small detail you mentioned caught my attention that I may have been overlooking as it regards to my lack of strength in the SQ/DL. You said at 5’8” you were 220-242 when competing. I’m the same height at 185; just gained 20# from 165 since getting back to training this June after debilitating back spasms —I still get them daily but they’re more manageable. Question is, at my height do I still need to put on another 20 or so lbs. to help these lifts along?

    Other items you may ask about:
    I work with a SSC and he cleaned up my SQ/DL form and has me on a good modified program (HLM) to accommodate my back issues and age. I’m 38/M btw. I know I’m not old per se but my back age seems to be.

    Lifts as of this week are: (I know, SQ/DL are pathetic. Always been weak on these and the spasms start when I’m bent over with weight)
    SQ 175x3x5
    DL 220x1x5
    BP 225x4x3
    PR 140x4x3

    I don’t track calories, but I eat until I feel sick. Then try to force more in. And I sleep just fine. Good mattress. Test is high — over 1,000. Started HRT and it works wonders.

    Thanks in advance for any thoughts/guidance.

    p.s. And I guarantee you that Epstein did not kill himself. Question is, does that one go in Bill or Hillary’s column?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Browndog View Post
    Thanks for the input Sully, and Mark.

    Not looking to be a troll here, I'm simply trying to settle this question I've been struggling with:

    Does the "minimalist" approach work for both the masters lifter who is training to "maintain" and for the masters lifter who is "competing"?

    If I were younger, I'd run both styles of programming and make an informed decision from there. But I don't have that kind of time, and I'd like to be as efficient in my training as is possible with the time I do have.

    I was hoping to piggyback on your years of experience.

    ...and perhaps there is no "one correct approach" to my question, it all depends on the individual. If that's the case, I'll just muddle on, eeking out small gains year over year...progress is progress.

    Thanks for your time.
    Sully and Baker have both said in their book that while volume is the enemy of old guys, intensity is essential to maintain strength. From which it seems safe to infer that a more measured aggressive approach might even increase strength. What that sweet spot is just might be discovered through incremental trial and error with not too much in either direction of too intense or too little volume.

    IMO, routines from lifters in the 50's and early 60's, before drugs took recovery and gains to a new dimension, might be a good place to start. I'm currently doing a Hepburn routine with increasing the number of singles in a lifting session over a 10-12 week cycle and using assistance lifts for what I think are my weak links and problem areas of my squat, bench press, and deadlift to make comprise volume. It's not the only such approach that might work for us old guys, but I've been using this for several such cycles and it seems to have brought back some of my previous competition squat and deadlift. Alas, the bench press has yet to respond well to this, so I've upped the volume a little in lifts like lockouts and dips.

  8. #18
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    Mark,

    Good commentary on the aging lifter. It was good to hear about training from another sexagenarian, because I do not know anyone personally my age still training. It is sobering to hear you do not need more sets or more reps, and it is okay to back off. I used to look at age and training on an incremental basis. From age 40 through age 60 I noticed a decline (endurance, work capacity, recovery) every 5 years. As long as I kept training you sort of maintained as well as gained strength. After age 60 it became slower, but for me I still was going pretty strong. However at 64 going into my 65th year the wheels came off, and I have really noticed that work capacity, endurance and recovery have become even more intertwined and nuanced. As my mother once said getting old is not for the faint of heart ! You have to keep on keeping on in some way shape form.

    John Fisher

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    It has been my experience that old guys who do lots of sets and reps end up with sore joints. And that once your joints get inflamed, they like to stay that way. You have a few younger "coaches" (who actually just sell template programs) telling you that there is no evidence that older lifters respond poorly to higher training volumes. I'm telling you that there is lots of evidence. Go ahead and add to it. Fine with me. As long as you pay your gym dues and enjoy yourself, I'm happy for you.
    I can honestly say that I have had to learn the hard way over the past 8 years that volume can create a host of problems especially In the joints. Younger online trainers which I have used know nothing about being over 60 because they do not have enough body of work with the demographic, and they themselves are not within that age group. Their answer is that you have to have more general physical preparedness to absorb more volume to create more gains. Even with perfect form repetitive motion will create a host of problems in a joint especially one that is older and has undergone some degenerative changes. I know because I am 66 and my own laboratory, and there is not enough information out there about strength training for the aging demographic except for what Starting Strength has published.

    John Fisher

  9. #19
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    At about what age should we begin to reduce the training frequency from 3 days a week? Is it just once we see it getting difficult to make progress at the 3 days a week rate? I am 51 and have been seeing progress consistently on the 3 days a week schedule. I have been lifting for decades but I have jumped around between many programs and never achieved what I should have and after listening to the podcasts, I believe my lack of achievement was likely due to not eating enough. I have been in the 185-195 range for a long time but in the last month and a half I have increased to my current weight of 206 (I am 6-0) while seeing nice progress with the program. I'm not particularly strong yet... Last Friday I completed all reps/sets on squats with 260 which is a PR for 5's especially going deep enough, up from 255 Wednesday and 250 Monday... Deadlift was one set of five with 305, up from 300 the previous Monday. This morning (Monday) would have been a lifting day but Yesterday (2 days after lifting last) I got extremely sure primarily on my right leg (appears to be mostly the Vastus Lateralis). This kept me up a lot last night and walking is rough this morning, so I decided to put off the workout. After listening to the podcast Friday about what happens when a lifter gets old, I was thinking maybe this is my body telling me it might be time to start resting longer between workouts?

  10. #20
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    Mar 2019
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    starting strength coach development program
    Coach,

    Not sure how you feel about the mara-ja-wana, but for some people this helps with the whole woke up and can’t stop thinking about shit problem.

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