Joe Rogan / Pavel “Which is best - barbell or kettlebell or machines?” - Page 2

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Thread: Joe Rogan / Pavel “Which is best - barbell or kettlebell or machines?”

  1. #11
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    Jul 2018
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    • wichita falls texas march seminar date
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    This from the StrongFirst website;

    'The kettlebell is the entry point into strength. Properly used, it teaches priceless movement lessons that prepare you for safe and effective barbell training. But the kettlebell can only go so far in development of absolute strength. Enter the Barbell Course.'

    Pretty much sums it up - barbells are superior for strength, just as we already knew.

  2. #12
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    I listened to this podcast 3 times. I usually listen to these two or three times when I am out hiking in the woods. When I listened to this one I thought man I am sure someone will post about this podcast.

    My thoughts about Pavel. True he is very Russian and I grew up watching Red Dawn and Rocky 4 in the 80's and was part of a Reagan loving, anti commie family, I still kinda like the Dude. I do appreciate he puts strength first and to me that's important. Now it seems those who use his programs with kettlebells seem to have a more defined physique (the whole abs thing) and also have what seems to be more muscular endurance (whatever the hell that actual is). Obviously with all of the Russian Scientist name dropping in the podcast he seems to be a man who has reviewed literature and tested and used his own theories and revised them as needed. That said he reminds me quite a bit of Tony Horton. He pumped out a program that has cardio and strength training and hey all the power to him and Tony.

    Personally I have 4 different sized kettle bells in my basement gym and they work wonders for me. I have used them for everything such as barricading my basement door, holding the basement door open while moving out my foosball table and I even killed a wolf spider once with the 25lb kettlebell. In all seriousness once and a while I use the for some OHP when I travel and they are at the hotel gym and there is nothing else. I have also done some hip swings etc when in that predicament but its all soreness the next day and really once you can deadlift and squat 405lb, a kettlebell deadlift is useless, for me anyway. I would rather just drink beer and rest.

    I know Wendler has used kettlebells in his training and other advanced lifters or former power dudes but he and the others are advanced and I am not. I'm not dogging kettlebells but they are useless for me.

    I was however intrigued about the name dropping from him for Karwoski, Ed Coan, and Marty Gallagher in the podcast. I wondered how much of this type of program a beast like Ed Coan would actually use for his monster lifts when training? Personally, and maybe I am just naïve and undertrained, are kettlebell swings or an OHP or deadlift with a kettlebell going to help Ed in any way shape or form compared to the barbell itself with heavy weight???

    Anyway, I just figured I would chime in, I like Pavel he seems like a cool dude trying from his vantage point, I guess it could be worse. I did get a couple of nuggets from he and Joe's discussion, such as cycling in a way to help the tendons and ligaments catch up. Not saying I agree or disagree but it made me think which is a rarity these days.

    Sparky

  3. #13
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    My information is that Marty got Pavel into the kettlebell business. I've spoken to him on the phone once. Nice guy.

  4. #14
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    Dec 2019
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    I'm new to the forum, but longtime lurker, and been a fan of Mr. Rippetoe since he became part of the CrossFit community back in the day, but it seems like there are members here that just like to trash anything that isn't in line with their way of thinking. Nice to see that there are others who have respect for Pavel and his program even if it is a different lane than the SS method. I personally don't follow it and prefer SS, but still think Pavel is legit and have always respected him. I gained even more respect for him after the Rogan podcast because he seems like he has integrity and didn't take the easy way out bashing everyone else who thinks differently. And as it's already been mentioned, he voiced his respect for barbell training and didn't deny it's effectiveness. For what he wants to accomplish it seems like his method is effective.

    I remember in one episode Mr. Rippetoe commented on how people tend to read the headline or just skim the first sentence without listening to or reading the entire article then spout off about how wrong the article is. Seems like the OP was heading in that direction as well. He/she pulls one sentence out of a 1 hour 45 minute long podcast and thinks he can sum the whole thing up, completely disregarding everything else the guy said.

  5. #15
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    Jul 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaimi Kuenzli View Post
    It's funny that all these people who do kettlebell and functional strength exercises still ask me to carry the fucking cooler.
    Their functional strength appears to not be functioning.

  6. #16
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    Oct 2017
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    "If life gives you kettle bells then make kettle bell-ade"

    My dear old mum asked about using a kettle bell as a substitute for a barbell deadlift in her little flat. I said sure, go ahead. An 84 year old who isn't going down the gym is better off lifting something and a KB will be perfect for the job.

  7. #17
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    Oct 2019
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    I “spouted off” specifically regarding one sentence - clearly highlighted at the beginning of the OP.

    Please show me specifically where I trashed “the whole article”.

    Disagreeing with one sentence does not constitute wholesale trashing. And yes I did listen to the whole podcast. Highlighting one bone of contention is not reflective of wholesale debunking.

  8. #18
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    Dec 2017
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    I enjoyed the fact he didn't shy away from the effectiveness of BB training. Being on the JRE and promoting squats and barbell training is scarce and to hear him actually talk of the importance more than once was nice. Kettlebells were great in the beginning for me, to understand a couple movement patterns. However,much of what I learned came from SS. SS has stuck with me since 2015, I still do the big 5 and a few accessories. I have not found a more distilled or more comprehensive program to barbell training, esp the novice. I hardly use kettlebells now and only if I am bored or want a quick cardio style workout i.e. exercise.

  9. #19
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    Pavel (and his crew) are barbell fans. He has put out several programs based around the Big Three. If you get on the StrongFirst forums you will see barbell training (in particular deadlift/bench) pushed. Deadlifts are usually suggested in addition to kettlebell training for serious athletes. They have a competition that involves deadlifts and weighted pullups (in addition to kettlebell snatches) that is similar to a powerlifting meet. So I don't think Pavel or his crew hate barbells.

    I think the biggest philosophical disagreements would be in regards to whether or not kettlebell training is "enough" strength training for most people. Or if kettlebell training should even be considered strength training. I've done both; I enjoy both. I think swings are a good way to develop work capacity and that TGUs are good exercise. I'd rather press a barbell since you can load it incrementally and I don't seem to have the shoulder problems that some do in regards to the barbell OHP.

    Just my $0.02

  10. #20
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    Jan 2020
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    starting strength coach development program
    Before I started training with barbells, particularly the press, I had shoulder pain that would interfere with my ability to perform my job (automotive mechanic). Since I started gaining strength and size in my shoulders, the pain is dramatically reduced, thus increasing my functionality at work.

    Barbells get my vote, they do great things in the hands of a motivated person.

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