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Thread: Joe Rogan / Pavel “Which is best - barbell or kettlebell or machines?”

  1. #21
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    I have to admit this is the first time I have listened to Pavel talk about training, so I may be jumping in the deep end of something, here, but: at one point in this interview he says (approx.) "a lift either has to be *fast* or *heavy* or there to be a training effect" -- I think he would put kettelbell movements in the "fast" category and the lifts recommended by Starting Strength in the "heavy" one.

    Without having to (necessarily - though I'd be happy to hear opinions) adjudicate that claim, it IS true that Starting Strength finds a place for power or speed moves in the power clean -- so there must be some perceived value (though sometimes I get the sense that it may be mainly for pure fun) -- and one of the sad parts of being an aging lifter is recognizing that the power clean makes diminishing sense with age, in terms of injury risk. Have I perhaps stumbled upon a simple melding point between these two approaches? Pavel makes a lot about how the kettlebells can be used to work around injuries -- are they perhaps another "power" modality that could be trained even when the power clean no longer makes sense due to age or injury? I am not sure I am correctly thinking around the various issues, here -- obviously, the power clean is much more titratable in terms of weight... Is there a simple benefit of "speed" with heavy-ish stuff in terms of its effect on balance and tissue health, that might potentially make the kettlebells a good supplement for those of us who are (or ought to be) beyond our power cleaning years?

    I don't know if it was just the context of this interview, but it strikes me that Pavel speaks in a way that inspires confidence -- he says enough not dumb things that one tends to give him the benefit of the doubt when he makes claims that challenge ones own knowledge or experience -- but he doesn't speak in a way that is easy to check -- he doesn't refer to a larger theoretical framework that one could falsify (or not) -- he just strings together a lot of reasonable sounding things and occasionally makes some surprising claims. It can be frustrating. Again, it may be an artifact of my only encountering him in this one context.

  2. #22
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    Rogan's heart is in the right place. He very much wants to get people off their asses and exercise and he fully understands the importance of physical strength. He does however, need to expose himself to a wider variety of positions on how to get strong. For someone with such a breadth of interests and depth of knowledge, occasionally he does make statements without adequately questioning basic assumptions. The Starting Strength model is big enough and accepted by enough people that it surprises me that he hasn't yet had Mark on as a guest.

    Personally, I think Rogan would be open to the message if he heard it himself and I think his core audience would be captivated by it.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFord View Post
    R it surprises me that he hasn't yet had Mark on as a guest.
    Have you ever watched Rip's podcasts?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    Have you ever watched Rip's podcasts?
    Of course. Why do you ask? Rogan has a very wide range of guests such as Lex Fridman (insightful genius) and Alex Jones (crackpot)? You don't think somewhere in there is a space for someone as charming, cultured, and effete as Mark Rippetoe?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFord View Post
    Of course. Why do you ask? Rogan has a very wide range of guests such as Lex Fridman (insightful genius) and Alex Jones (crackpot)? You don't think somewhere in there is a space for someone as charming, cultured, and effete as Mark Rippetoe?
    Rip likes to joke about Rogan calling him all the time.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soule View Post
    Rip likes to joke about Rogan calling him all the time.
    But it's funny when he does that. I'm not a Joe Rogan Kool-Aid swallower but I probably think more of him than you do.

  7. #27
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    I watched the entire podcast, and Pavel definitely understands the importance of the barbell for strength training, saying that we have no other tool that accomplishes that specific task better.

    As an aside, there's an article of his where he outright dismisses microloading, referencing a gym whose owner would literally spray-paint pink any plates small than 5 pounds to stigmatize their usage. Oh well.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Button View Post
    As an aside, there's an article of his where he outright dismisses microloading, referencing a gym whose owner would literally spray-paint pink any plates small than 5 pounds to stigmatize their usage. Oh well.
    I don't believe in New Years resolutions but this year I decided I am going to give it a shot. My press is stuck so I just reset and as progress slows I plan to just add 1lb a week for as long as I can and see how far that gets me. I'll start a new thread when I get stuck, with the details. That is my New Years resolution. Not to get greedy and microload the press weekly and see how far I get.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFord View Post
    But it's funny when he does that. I'm not a Joe Rogan Kool-Aid swallower but I probably think more of him than you do.
    I like Rogan and I agree that he needs to be educated on strength training. I used to listen to his podcast religiously, but I found myself believing in his opinions too often and one day I realized that maybe a guy who used to think the moon landing was faked isn’t the best mentor. That being said, he is logical most of the time.

    Lets get Rogan on SS radio, since Rip isn’t going to him!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAD9692 View Post
    I don't believe in New Years resolutions but this year I decided I am going to give it a shot. My press is stuck so I just reset and as progress slows I plan to just add 1lb a week for as long as I can and see how far that gets me. I'll start a new thread when I get stuck, with the details. That is my New Years resolution. Not to get greedy and microload the press weekly and see how far I get.
    I don't know why many experienced lifters frown on microloading so much. I bought a set of eight half pound weights sized to fit on olympic bars at Amazon. This gives one the ability to go up in one pound increments. Since I've been doing intermediate programming I've only needed the 2 1/2 pound weights. The 1/2 pounders were super helpful for advancing in the overhead press through the novice progression though. I understand that unless you use your own weights at home, there are problems with the inaccuracy of plate weights that obscure the value of microloading but I just ignored that and still made progress.

    If I went to a gym where they painted such weights pink, that wouldn't stop me. Yellow might though.

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