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Thread: Older lifters podcast.

  1. #21
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    • starting strength seminar april 2024
    • starting strength seminar jume 2024
    • starting strength seminar august 2024
    I'd listen for sure (64 yrs old). Just started with SS last April and this is the longest I've ever stayed with a program.
    Avid listener to everything SS and GreySteel. Read SS, TBP, and now reading PP. In the past every-time the weight would get to a point where it became challenging I'd get hurt, take a layoff for rest and then years
    would go by before another attempt. Dr Sullivan has convinced me to push though and I've become somewhat of an evangelist for both SS and TBP, to the dismay of some friends and relatives....
    "There are non so righteous as the newly converted"

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Sullivan View Post
    I have to differ. TBP has a chapter on advanced programming. For truly elite competitors, even Masters, however, programming will always be very highly individualized. Templates, to the extent they're useful at all in that very small population of competitive Masters, are of limited utility.
    It does and I'm actually not certain I've read it, primarily because it has that caveat about 'very few ever reach..' Which I would assume didn't apply to me. I shall read that chapter, the book is always on my kitchen table just for that purpose.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Sullivan View Post
    I have to differ. TBP has a chapter on advanced programming. For truly elite competitors, even Masters, however, programming will always be very highly individualized. Templates, to the extent they're useful at all in that very small population of competitive Masters, are of limited utility.
    Heh. Small is right. Most meets I have been at typically have a grand total of three of us at 60+, and damn few in the 50's categories.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Sullivan View Post
    I have to differ. TBP has a chapter on advanced programming. For truly elite competitors, even Masters, however, programming will always be very highly individualized. Templates, to the extent they're useful at all in that very small population of competitive Masters, are of limited utility.
    Dr Sullivan is spot on with respects to his comments. I have used different templates, reputable on line trainers, and it is still difficult to coordinate conditioning and strength training within the given parameters of the template or the individualized online training program. At age 66 I am on hormonal fumes, and cannot afford to make the training mistakes of my youth and not have a setback. TBP was a first for many older lifters, and is a reference for myself, my problem is what should I expect out of my 66 yr old body when I push it, and how does frequency of training, aging, nutrition, and sleep affect my recovery. I think that anecdotal information from older lifters over 55 is important, and I feel fortunate that we have Rip, Dr Sullivan and the rest of the SS family for a resource.

    John Fisher

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thip View Post
    Dr Sullivan is spot on with respects to his comments. I have used different templates, reputable on line trainers, and it is still difficult to coordinate conditioning and strength training within the given parameters of the template or the individualized online training program. At age 66 I am on hormonal fumes, and cannot afford to make the training mistakes of my youth and not have a setback. TBP was a first for many older lifters, and is a reference for myself, my problem is what should I expect out of my 66 yr old body when I push it, and how does frequency of training, aging, nutrition, and sleep affect my recovery. I think that anecdotal information from older lifters over 55 is important, and I feel fortunate that we have Rip, Dr Sullivan and the rest of the SS family for a resource.

    John Fisher
    Some programs to consider that have worked reasonably well for me as an old guy too. Wendler's 5-3-1 routines I have found to be not too demanding, even with the AMRAP's on the last set. Just now, I am using a Doug Hepburn routine with singles that ramp up from 4 to 10 over the course of 10-12 weeks with a speed/deload/dynamic effort week interspersed every 4 weeks. This has worked well for my squat and deadlift. I suspect I needed a skosh more total frequency and volume of assistance lifts for my bench press. It hasn't moved. You might look back at routines from the 40's and 50's, maybe the early 60's before PED's boosted recovery to training frequencies and volumes too unrealistic for mere mortals unassisted by chemistry.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    Some programs to consider that have worked reasonably well for me as an old guy too. Wendler's 5-3-1 routines I have found to be not too demanding, even with the AMRAP's on the last set. Just now, I am using a Doug Hepburn routine with singles that ramp up from 4 to 10 over the course of 10-12 weeks with a speed/deload/dynamic effort week interspersed every 4 weeks. This has worked well for my squat and deadlift. I suspect I needed a skosh more total frequency and volume of assistance lifts for my bench press. It hasn't moved. You might look back at routines from the 40's and 50's, maybe the early 60's before PED's boosted recovery to training frequencies and volumes too unrealistic for mere mortals unassisted by chemistry.
    Good information Mark. I have used 5-3-1, Andy Bakers 8-5-2, and a personalized program from Andy developed for me when I was younger at age 60. I have also purchased Andys programs from his website. In-between I have used on line trainers that were affiliated with SS. I have had success with all. Not a program hopper ,but our demographic does not allow for any margin of error in training. I have varied intensity and volume as well as accessory movements within the program parameters to suit my progression and recovery needs. Still dealing with back issues, but DR John Petrizzo has helped me with getting back on the training wagon and has been working with me in developing a suitable training framework that involves getting me stronger, recover and stay away from additional injury, all while losing weight. I cannot say enough about Dr John. Also I would say that Andy Bakers programs are the most well thought out templates. What I have found out is that Rip is correct, the minimum effective dose is what is needed, and therein lies the issue for Older lifters especially those our age. That is a sweet spot that can be difficult to find. Actually we are our own laboratories, and we have to find this out through trial and error. I have been going through past training logs to discern patterns of success and failure.

    With respects to the deadlift and the squat, less frequency is better ,( speaking as an over 65 lifter) but you have to deliver the volume on training day. I sled drag in-between squat weeks for conditioning (20 Min up and down an incline) why an incline? I live in Pgh where flat open areas are few an far between near my home. I have found to make the BP move you either have to include OHP to train the shoulders and triceps or drop the OHP and add an accessory movement like the Incline BP where I use a narrow grip to mimic CG BP. Just my .02 take at 66 ,and still learning.

    John Fisher

  7. #27
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    Based on my own training history, I admit to NDTP in my novice phase. I've run many cycles of 5-3-1, and Texas Method (before the schism) in my intermediate phase, and I've found that all of them left something to be desired...for me.

    Looking back, I believe the reason for the lack of results with these programs was that the programs either had intensity, but lacked volume, or vice versa. Additionally, I believe that as these programs were not individualized to my abilities (or lack thereof), I ended up with sub optimal results.

    It wasn't until I signed up with a coach for both technique and programming that I broke out of plateaus that plagued me on my Squat and Deadlift (my Bench still sucks, and probably always will). And each year since having received individualized programming, my numbers have increased. The program does not adhere to the minimal effect dose ethos. It would be categorized as a maximum recoverable dose program..for someone my age. It probably took a year before we truly got the dosage dialed in, but we did, and we have results I can live with. I may not do as many top sets / back offs sets as the kids, but the rep ranges remain the same. The assistance work is adjusted accordingly as well...and there's a lot of it.

    My point being is that I believe a Masters lifter, especially if they compete, needs individualized programming. Cookie cutter programs may work nicely for the younger cohort, but not for those with a "compromised hormonal milieu" of a masters lifter.

    I'd love to have had a twin, and have had him run a minimum effective dose program as a control. But I don't, and we'll never really know which approach works "best". That said, I'm comfortable with my choice of "maximum recoverable dose", in order for me to be the best I can be.

    TLR

    Get a coach who has programmed for masters lifters successfully, and work as hard as your body and desires allow.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thip View Post
    Good information Mark. I have used 5-3-1, Andy Bakers 8-5-2, and a personalized program from Andy developed for me when I was younger at age 60. I have also purchased Andys programs from his website. In-between I have used on line trainers that were affiliated with SS. I have had success with all. Not a program hopper ,but our demographic does not allow for any margin of error in training. I have varied intensity and volume as well as accessory movements within the program parameters to suit my progression and recovery needs. Still dealing with back issues, but DR John Petrizzo has helped me with getting back on the training wagon and has been working with me in developing a suitable training framework that involves getting me stronger, recover and stay away from additional injury, all while losing weight. I cannot say enough about Dr John. Also I would say that Andy Bakers programs are the most well thought out templates. What I have found out is that Rip is correct, the minimum effective dose is what is needed, and therein lies the issue for Older lifters especially those our age. That is a sweet spot that can be difficult to find. Actually we are our own laboratories, and we have to find this out through trial and error. I have been going through past training logs to discern patterns of success and failure.

    With respects to the deadlift and the squat, less frequency is better ,( speaking as an over 65 lifter) but you have to deliver the volume on training day. I sled drag in-between squat weeks for conditioning (20 Min up and down an incline) why an incline? I live in Pgh where flat open areas are few an far between near my home. I have found to make the BP move you either have to include OHP to train the shoulders and triceps or drop the OHP and add an accessory movement like the Incline BP where I use a narrow grip to mimic CG BP. Just my .02 take at 66 ,and still learning.

    John Fisher
    I don't have the back problems you do, but I do have to regulate my low back recovery carefully. So I spread out my squat and deadlift days between bench presses and seated presses on other days. It goes, squat, bench press, deadlift, seated press with assistance lifts for each day. I lift 3 days a week on M-W-F, so this has my routine spread out over 4 days lapping over into the next week. So far it has allowed enough recovery for my lumbars to keep plugging along. My deadlift has come back pretty well so far. Just more food for thought. You don't have to be locked into a single week for planning and organizing purposes. But maybe you already know that.

  9. #29
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    Looking back on my training history, I admit to NDTP in my novice phase. I've run various intermediate programs, including: 5-3-1, Texas Method, Paul Carter's Big 15 / Strong 15. All of these intermediate programs left me at the same plateau on my lifts.

    It wasn't until I decided to get a coach for programming, that I broke through these plateaus. The difference, as I see it, is that I have an optimal mix of intensity and volume...for me. The previous programs had one, but not the other. It may have taken a year or so to get everything dialed in, but once we did, my numbers in competition have increased every year.

    I may not do as many top sets / back off sets as the kids, but my rep scheme is the same. My assistance work is set up similarly. Everything is based on my ability to recover, and with a thoughtful eye, my coach has a great feel for how hard I can train.

    I am confident in saying that I could not have achieved the results I have to date with a minimum effective dose regimen. A MED approach would have kept me on the right path for wellness goals, but it would not have worked as well in order for me to compete, and accomplish my goals on the platform. I wish I had a twin, in order to run a control, but I don't, so we'll never truly know which approach works "best". That said, I'm comfortable with my results, but from an academic stance, I'd love to have hard data.

    tl:dr

    If you're a masters lifter who wants to compete, get a coach who has programmed for masters lifters.

  10. #30
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    I was never an athlete at any time, so world records are probably a long way from my potential. Were you always always a lifter, or did you come to it later as I have ?
    I was a globogym-goer until 48 (7 years ago) when I found SS. Meets really focus my training, so I do 1 a year since I thought 1K total was in reach.

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