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Thread: gaining weight and high blood pressure

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfsully View Post
    Maybe instead of the “obesity” epidemic, we should refer to it as “adioposity.” There is definitely a risk from carrying excess body fat (the dividing line for “excess” is certainly debatable). And there is definitely a benefit to carrying more skeletal muscle, more of which, increases weight and BMI and clouds the picture.

    When people on these forums are encouraged to gain weight, it is generally not with the purpose of increasing body fat %, but for the purpose of increasing lean body mass. Some fat gain comes along with that of course.

    Astute doctors will realize this, but many focus on BMI. The reason is that the vast, VAST majority of Americans with high BMI are sedentary and sarcopenic. The folks doing regular resistance training, like those on these forums, represent a sliver of the general population, unfortunately. So when your doctor worries about your BMI after you gain a bunch of muscle, it’s not because doctors are wrong and BMI is BS, it’s because they don’t recognize you as unusual and therefore they are not using BMI correctly.

    If you gain significant lean body mass, that should not increase BP, as muscle is very vascular and the increase in capillary bed should reduce the resistance against which your heart has to pump.

    If you are eating above an appropriate caloric surplus, your BF% may be increasing, and you may want to focus on recomposition to get your BF% and BP down where you want it.

    Sorry, this went off on a tangent and I just re-read the original post: sounds like your BF and overall weight are OK. You are 31, and if you are getting hypertension from an extra 10 lbs, you likely have essential hypertension that will need medication management no matter what you do. Do you have a family history of high BP? To avoid meds, you could experiment with losing some weight and see if it improves your BP. If so, keeping your weight lower and continuing to train would be a reasonable option. If you want to max out your gains on SSNLP and your BP stays high, taking a BP Med would be a reasonable course of action too.

    Again, sorry for the extended rant above, it may not apply to the OP, but I will leave it in as I am curious about Coach Santana’s thoughts and it may be helpful to someone.
    I am not sure how any of this applies to what I said? I agree with what you are saying so there is that. My only caveat is that most people on this board are probably at a healthy overweight BMI because you can do silly bs and gain enough muscle mass to knock yourself out of the normal weight range. With more time under the bar and respectable numbers getting into the obese category is also possible. However, the fat guy squatting and deadlifting sub 300 with a BMI of 30 is likely there because of excess body fat. Lastly, if this guy's BP is no bs high at his current BMI and strength levels, he probably does in fact have essential hypertension which will require medical management as you stated.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    I am not sure how any of this applies to what I said? I agree with what you are saying so there is that. My only caveat is that most people on this board are probably at a healthy overweight BMI because you can do silly bs and gain enough muscle mass to knock yourself out of the normal weight range. With more time under the bar and respectable numbers getting into the obese category is also possible.
    I wasn’t disagreeing with you at all, was just interested in your thoughts as I was riffing on your mention of the “obesity paradox,” that e.g. skinny hypertensives have worse outcomes than obese hypertensives. It’s controversial, in part because it’s plain to most doctors that obesity is harmful, so the benefit is hard to accept.

    I have not really delved into the research or numbers on this, but my superficial take is that lean body mass is the protective factor, and more obese than underweight people have adequate lean body mass. But if it’s buried under too much fat, they’re also sicker. Makes sense to me, but that doesn’t mean it’s right, so I wanted to put my thoughts out there for review, so to speak.

  3. #13
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    Interesting discussion:

    @JFSully - is there medical evidence that hypertrophy creates less resistance and hence lower BP.

    @generally-what mechanism causes excess body fat to become into consistently high BP ? I know lots of very sedentary people with high body fat in the 60+ age group that have normal BP, but they struggle to walk up a slight hill.

    I feel better when I'm at a lower weight. In order to get my BP to around normal required me to get to 147lbs before I began strength training -I did LSD exercise during that time with lots of walking, some Hit, body weight exercise and a few weighted squats,DL, curls, calf raises and shrugs, but I would say I was still skinny/fat. After I began SS I started eating more and though I was clearly getting stronger, my BF ratio wasn't ideal and BP went back up. After a recomp of 13lbs it's now back to normal. We have a history of high BP in my family so genetics plays a part I must assume.

    This still confounds me, but the 'vascular ..capillary bed' plus the lower BF ration gives two possible options for why BP is now in the normal range.

  4. #14
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    So, is 150/85 BP ok or not? It's either ok or no

  5. #15
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    It depends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markus1 View Post
    So, is 150/85 BP ok or not? It's either ok or no
    My wife is a nurse and she can't answer that question. Some elderly patients are 200/100 with no apparent problems. She uses their BP to monitor their condition from a base line, so, if it's 200/100 and begins rapidly falling/rising, then that gives some indication of a problem, and that problem usually has other, more obvious manifestations.

    My own GP wasn't very concerned about 160/85 for a 55 year old, man who doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, isn't morbidly obese, does some regular moderate exercise, has a reasonable diet and there isn't early coronary/stroke problems in the family. Infact I asked to be put on meds because the fear of a stroke was freaking me out-causing even higher BP.

    Having done a fair bit of research I've concluded that no one really has the answers. There are correlations in otherwise healthy people, but BP becomes more important with those who are injured, or ill. There are guidelines and recommendations, but these have been revised frequently.

    As an example, if a BP was consistenly around 120/70 for most of a persons life, then, it started to increase up to 185/85, then this might indicate a requirement to get some exercise, lose weight, change diet, reduce stress, check for sleep issues like apnea. If, none of those things had altered the :shrug: it might indicate something else going wrong, or it might be just a genetic predisposition. In the absence of other factors such as smoking, alcohol, family history, it might not even indicate a need for BP meds.

    As Rip said....it depends and in that sentence there are a million unknowns.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by markus1 View Post
    So, is 150/85 BP ok or not? It's either ok or no
    Mine was like that, and one doctor decided to treat it, and another doctor kinda eyerolled when I told him that. So... yeah.

    My impression is it's not a medical emergency, but you should keep an eye on it.

  8. #18
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    My understanding is this is consistent with isolated systolic hypertension. Where the top number is high but the bottom number isn’t (or is below 90). Seems like I read the concerns of cerebrovascular disease and forefront with this type of condition and it usually affects the elderly (SPRINT and HOPE trials).

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfsully View Post
    I wasn’t disagreeing with you at all, was just interested in your thoughts as I was riffing on your mention of the “obesity paradox,” that e.g. skinny hypertensives have worse outcomes than obese hypertensives. It’s controversial, in part because it’s plain to most doctors that obesity is harmful, so the benefit is hard to accept.

    I have not really delved into the research or numbers on this, but my superficial take is that lean body mass is the protective factor, and more obese than underweight people have adequate lean body mass. But if it’s buried under too much fat, they’re also sicker. Makes sense to me, but that doesn’t mean it’s right, so I wanted to put my thoughts out there for review, so to speak.
    Most doctors believe things that their "pimp" told them to believe in medical school. The Harvard Guys say that "obesity kills" and the Cooper Institute guys say "not if you are fit." Here is a good question to ask at the individual level. Did your fat parent or grandparent have a heart attack and die?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Most doctors believe things that their "pimp" told them to believe in medical school. The Harvard Guys say that "obesity kills" and the Cooper Institute guys say "not if you are fit." Here is a good question to ask at the individual level. Did your fat parent or grandparent have a heart attack and die?
    Anecodotaly I know several fat people who had heart attacks, but none died from them. I also know a very skinny runner who had to have a triple bypass. Most people I know have died of cancer - one was a very fit guy who trained and rode mountain bikes, the others were just average, or somewhat obese. The only thing that appeared to link them, was that several were, or had been heavy smokers at some stage in their lives. That is the closest I've got to something being causative.

    My grandmother died of a stroke after getting senile dementure, she had always been a tiny, thin bird of a woman that smoked capstan full strength like a chimney. After getting senile dementure she put on a lot of weight, but it's hard to say if this caused the stroke.

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