Why not starting strength and "clean keto" combined ? Why not starting strength and "clean keto" combined ? - Page 4

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Thread: Why not starting strength and "clean keto" combined ?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kris90 View Post
    Thanks for posting this threat. I am a fat-adapted trainee here and you can find my log here: Fat Adapted Training - Journey To 1000 lb

    I'm about 4.5 months in (not new to lifting, but had taken about 5 years off), and my progress on SS so far is:

    Bodyweight 155 -> 170
    Squat 135 -> 305
    Bench 125 -> 220
    OHP 65 -> 125
    DL 185 -> 390

    The key point is that becoming TRULY fat-adapted can take 24-36 months, and in my experience, performance and recovery is equal to, if not better than fueling with carbs. My gains on a low carb/ketogenic diet have been about as rapid as they were in my bodybuilding days experimenting with AAS on high carb diets. The only difference is body composition and health is superior fueling this way.

    The key to making it work is patience. We've been eating carbs 24/7 in an artificially lit world creating a pro-growth/inflammatory environment and speeding up cell cycles. The transition of day and night as well as seasonal transitions and dietary shifts are how we adapt to our environment and control the pace of cell repair and replacement. These processes are tightly controlled by the circadian and circannual rhythm. Given we have liven outside of this rhythm most of our lives because we can now import carbs, eat them out of season, extend our days with artificial light, and avoid the cold of winter which limits thermogenesis (a function of brown fat and muscle), we are no longer adapted to using ketosis to fuel superior performance.

    Think about it. The beta oxidation of fatty acids (i.e. palmitate) yields around 147 ATP per mole, while glycolysis only provides 38 ATP. The reason has to do with the anatomy of the electron transport chain in mitochondria. Electrons from carbohydrates enter at the first cytochrome which is leaky by design to produce free radicals for signalling. Signalling is more important in summer when we are active and hunting, fighting, etc. Electrons from fatty acids bypass cytochrome 1 so we produce less free radicals, and are able to tunnel electrons toward oxygen more efficiently to produce: ATP, metabolic water and CO2 levels.

    The key is that our environment should drive ketosis. Ketosis is not natural 24/7 just like eating carbs is not either. We are designed to go long periods without food on both a daily basis (perhaps fasting 18-20 hours) but also a seasonal basis, and we certainly weren't eating much carbs in the winter, other than what would come from animal flesh (remember, meats store glycogen, so eating a high meat diet would give us some glucose, hence the inuits may not be in ketosis due to high amounts of animal proteins). Being in strong sunlight, and grounding to the earth alone can drive the ATPase to spin faster producing ATP WITHOUT food electrons. UV light is known to LOWER respiration and electron flow from cytochrome 1-3 via nitric oxide, a free radical that also helps lower blood pressure through vasodilation. IR light (which 42% of sunlight happens to be) is able to directly act on the 4th cytochrome (cytochrome c oxidase) to make ATP without food. You can google photobiomodulation or red light therapy to learn more.

    So basically, our ancestors connected better with natural and to the environment, yielding energy directly from sunlight, and the earth, and probably drank quality water, and always breathed fresh air. They didn't need much food. If we learn to reconnect with nature, we can do the same.

    As for lifting weights being unnatural, that is true, but here's the deal. Our muscles MAIN purpose aside from generating force is actually to produce heat. This opens a can-of-worms on cold adapted mammals. There is a pathway in our brain that allows us to use our muscles to generate heat via thermogenesis. This process is driven by the thyroid hormones which activate the uncoupling proteins in skeletal muscle and brown fat, and what this does is increases fatty acid oxidation to produce heat INSTEAD of ATP. See when we are warm adapted, our respiratory chain is more stretched out, and we need to produce ATP as a means to unfold protein to allow for water binding (ref: Gilbert Ling). But in the cold, the respiratory chain is condensed, and electron flow speeds up. This causes the proton gradient (which normally drives ATP synthesis) to become dissipated as heat, and we begin burning calories for free heat. When this occurs, insulin is shut off (i.e. physiological insulin resistance). This is NOT a bad thing, but if one eats carbs in this state, you will get type 2 diabetes. That's why the inuits are facing that problem, because they now embrace heated homes, and eat carbs imported. They no longer follow their natural diets and environments. Mammals use the cold adapted pathway during hibernation to access autophagy, build muscle mass and reverse the inflammation/diabetes and obesity from excessive carbs in the fall.

    See carbs don't fatten us when UV light is present. Carbs fatten mammals at the end of summer/fall when UV light drops off a cliff. This is because we need strong UV light to drive electron flow from carbs within mitochondria. Without the UV, carb electrons leak, and produce more free radicals. This turns insulin ON to bring more glucose into cells to pack on fat. Overtime, as a mammals fat stores are filling up and swelling, and the cold hits, this is the signal for insulin resistance which does 2 things: 1) prevents more glucose from entering the cell and 2) keeps blood sugar high which acts as antifreeze. Then, the problem goes away when the mammal hibernates and activates the cold adapted/ketogenic pathway for winter.

    So the key is, if we are willing to activate the cold-adapted pathways, we can fuel on a ketogenic template, and lift weights with better recovery, lower inflammation and achieve longevity. I've used this cold adapted pathway to reverse my health ailments, and now I'm putting it to the test for performance.

    Another thing people have to realise is that when healthy, our bodies are totally capable of producing glucose from non-carb sources. If our liver is functioning optimally, we can use gluconeogenesis and convert some aminos into glucose. This would make sense of our ancestors especially in winter since they likely ate excessive amounts of protein from animals and next to no carbs given they cannot grow in winter months.

    Another pathway which is parallel to glycolysis, but an anabolic and not catabolic pathway is the PPP (pentose phosphate pathway). It is able to restore glycogen SANS carbs, and also is the most ancient, chemically reducing pathway known in mammals. It replenishes the key reducing agents such as NADPH to restore glutathione (master anti-oxidant) while also providing reducing compounds for the biosynthesis of steroid hormones from cholesterol.

    Here are a few good reads that reference a lot of what I have stated:

    Page not found – Dr. Jack Kruse
    EMF 4: Why Might You Need Carbs for Performance? – Dr. Jack Kruse
    Fascinating.

  2. #32
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    I have to wonder what percentage of our ancestors lived in temperate climates with actual winters. Hell, a pretty sizable chunk of the world's current population doesn't now.

  3. #33
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    Page not found...Pure Gold!

  4. #34
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    From Jack Kruse's front page:

    "There is a deep connection between thermodynamics in biology and the processing of energy and information. This process begins in the skin and this biophysical process will be explored and examined. In 2016 Jack came to Nourish Vermont and explained how food can only be understood via photosynthesis. Last year he showed us obesity begins in the eye and not with foods of [SIC] exercise. All of these things tie light, water, and magnetism the computations [SIC] that mitochondria must make. What stands between the sun and our mitochondria? The skin. Do nature and biology add lipid droplets to our skin to create a laser that changes sunlight into coherent light that activates programs in our subcutaneous fat? Learn how the skin works with the sun and mitochondria in a wireless fashion to build wellness within.

    Purchase Now!"

    Hoo,boy!

  5. #35
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    Some very important, very profound shit here. And here we were, wandering around in Freshman Chemistry, swallowing their lies.

  6. #36
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    This whole keto/paleo/vertical diet nonsense is just one big giant naturalistic fallacy.

    „Because our ancestors did it!“ or „It’s natural!“ is just not a good argument.

    Violence is natural. Not aging past 30 was natural. Hell, even cannibalism was „natural“ for some folks in the past.

    Shoes are unnatural. Barbells are unnatural. Brain surgery is unnatural.

    “Natural!“ or „Ancestors though!“ doesn’t mean shit.

  7. #37
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    "See carbs don't fatten us when UV light is present. Carbs fatten mammals at the end of summer/fall when UV light drops off a cliff. This is because we need strong UV light to drive electron flow from carbs within mitochondria. Without the UV, carb electrons leak, and produce more free radicals. This turns insulin ON to bring more glucose into cells to pack on fat. Overtime, as a mammals fat stores are filling up and swelling, and the cold hits, this is the signal for insulin resistance which does 2 things: 1) prevents more glucose from entering the cell and 2) keeps blood sugar high which acts as antifreeze. Then, the problem goes away when the mammal hibernates and activates the cold adapted/ketogenic pathway for winter."


    Thanks for that. It is a very nice and simple technical analogy. This is a key point (as well as the post in general).

    When myself, and many other "clean fat & protein eating" keto-adapted people are feeling; energetic, continuously full, eating on-demand without carb cravings, moving between keto and low-carb to fuel workouts.............the feeling is that this is something that is happening that is profound and logical.

    How people can get to such a "fueling state" is something that requires a lot more thought and experimentation.

    Here is a podcast from Ben Bocchicchio, PhD. He is in the North East of the US, has a number of establishments and is a proponent of heavy compound exercising combined with keto/low-carb states for overweight and diabetic people.

    Diet Doctor Podcast - #39 - Ben Bocchicchio, PhD

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    I have to wonder what percentage of our ancestors lived in temperate climates with actual winters. Hell, a pretty sizable chunk of the world's current population doesn't now.
    Check out the Sherpas. They master their environment which is a cold, hypoxic environment.

    The way I see it, is as mammals, and loosely coupled (Northern European) haplotype, we are designed to face cold. 10 C/50 F is the optimal temperature on the skin for activating the pathway. This is standard ground temperatures of mammals who hibernate. The cold-adapted pathway allowed mammals to survive the last extinction event (the KT). They connected to the ground to yield the earth's free electrons to keep their mitochondria humming, while using cold/thermogenesis and ketosis/fasting to survive. The birds used their mitochondrial capacity to fly and migrate to where the sun was. So we have a warm adapted and cold adapted pathway. But you are correct, nobody is using it today. One person who comes to mind though is Wim Hof.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by flathead View Post
    (1) Reversing diabetes, essentially means that you are back to a normal hba1c blood sugar level with zero medication. I am right at the top level of normal now. I know that I have done something significant because my kidney, liver, blood pressure and cholesterol levels have also reversed back to normal levels after 7 years of abnormality.
    Would you mind giving more details specifically concerning your kidney levels and how they have improved? I am guessing you are talking, at least in part, about your creatinine levels and corresponding eGFR but all related info you are willing to divulge is appreciated. Thank you.

  10. #40
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    starting strength coach development program
    I'm confused as to what food I'm supposed to eat when it's sunny but cold, and how big my mitochondria will grow if I go barefoot on the grass 8 minutes a day when in ketosis.

    I can't believe that jack guy is a licensed neurosurgeon. The nerve of that guy.

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