Why not starting strength and "clean keto" combined ?

[Sawyer]

And why do you think we have an explosion in chronic diseases today? Why are our children sicker than ever? It's because of the unnatural environment. That's my whole point.

So you can embrace this unnatural environment and succumb to chronic disease, or you can master your lifestyle and optimize your environment by reconnecting with nature to achieve optimal health and longevity. Point proven.

That has nothing to do with keto or any of the stuff you’re talking about. Many vegans on a high carb diet report exactly the same reduction of chronic disease and have science to back up their claims.

Living a sedentary lifestyle, eating like shit and being alive 70 years + leads to illness. Duh...

[jfsully]

I guess I have to post this like once a week now. People are living longer than ever before, and our bodies inevitably break down in various ways. If you look at historical life expectancy, it's almost like we starting living longer once we started doing all this unnatural shit like: washing our hands, treating our drinking water, vaccinating against dread diseases, taking medications, perfecting surgical techniques and medical devices, and yes, barbell training. I'm not saying that unnatural things are necessarily good, I'm saying that longevity is unnatural, and to obtain it you have to do unnatural things.

lifeexpectancy.jpg

[CommanderFun]

I'll tell you why Keto and heavy strength training don't mix. It's long but it's a personal anecdote. I went through this all myself. Forget arguments over what the original cave people ate. Their diets weren't any more ultra optimized than any other wild animals. Wild animals eat what they can get and manage to digest.

At the turn of 2018 to 2019, I started getting fed up with how fat I'd gotten. I wasn't in the morbidly obese category even by the wonky BMI's standards, but I was big and squishy. I'd grown up being a "hard gainer" type, before I began to dabble into any sort of physical exercise in high school I was 6'2", 120 pounds. So I got in the habit of not giving a shit about what I ate, because I could shovel down whatever I wanted and I was always skinny as hell (something I actually resented, and so I made a habit of overeating in unhealthy ways to try and overcome it). Over the years this very gradually dropped off, and at 34 and over 280, it had gotten to the point I decided changes needed to be made. At the same time, I also came to the conclusion that if I was ever going to be strong like I always wished I could be, the potential for how far I could get was going down as the years went on. But I decided first to bring that fat level down.

So while lifting on a program I found on bodybuilding.com using conservative start weights and small increments, I dieted. And I found my way to a keto diet. It was very easy to comply with. Just axe an entire macronutrient from the diet (more or less), and it even benefited satiety enormously. I was under maintenance levels by a deficit of over 1000 calories, and didn't feel the least bit hungry or out of energy. It worked great! I lost something like 60-70 pounds in about 3-4 months, and even increased my meager little lift numbers some at the same time.

After that cut-down I found my way to Starting Strength, took a novice stab at a novice progression, and finally by the end of 2019 I had gotten to lift numbers that weren't amazing for my bodyweight, but they were far higher than I ever thought I'd be capable of in my entire life. However, my weight was back up to 280. I looked very different than before as body composition had changed, I still looked quite slimmer than I did at the old 280. But I decided that since in the process of eating up to this weight I lost the ability to do chinups, and since my goals are bodyweight based, I figured losing some of that dead weight was a good idea.

Since keto worked so well before, I decided to dive right back into it with the turn of the new year. I changed my program up to an HLM scheme, factored in a small deload, and figured I would take very small weekly jumps from there. 2 weeks in it got to be a disaster. I lost 10 pounds in a big hurry, hooray! But I don't think those 10 pounds were the kind of 10 pounds I wanted. Instead of going up a teensy bit from the new deloaded weights, I actually LOST the ability to even work with the deloaded weights I started with. I had lost 10 pounds, but my press lost 15, my bench 20, my squat 35. The only one that didn't drop under the new deloaded start was the deadlift, and I suspect that's because it benefited from my waist now being smaller simply because I was walking around with less food stuffed in it at any given time. This was week 2 of the keto diet. It was also the last week of the keto diet. I wasn't about to see how much further down this shit was gonna go.

Your motors need gas. Carbs are gas for your motors. If you don't give your motors enough gas, your body will downsize your motors that will be satisfied with the meager amount of gas you are giving them. Keto is a great diet if you are sedentary or just fucking around with weights. It is an absolutely awful one if you are trying to build real strength or if you are trying to lose weight while holding on to as much as you can. You have been warned by a fool who made this mistake.

[flathead]

No-one is denying that a combination of technological breakthroughs haven't brought humanity a step ahead. But what takes them a couple of steps back, is "organised human profiteering".

Do not bury what people have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years in the process. They also had a few intelligent people amongst them. These things may have not been written down but they have been passed down from generations to generations and we look at certain things and dismiss them. We dismiss SOME OF THEM because we do not understand the mechanics of why they work.

Some of these "skewed and profiteering" new tech ideas and principles that are slowly being debunked (e.g. saturated fat) involve;
...a great simple punchline for the gullible masses,
...a few pioneering studies to promote them,
...enough money to take advantage and sell some products off the back of them,
...a lobbying protection fund to defend them or reduce the speed in which "they are debunked" through media confusion.

The state of medicine with one food nutrition course at US medical school being sponsored by Kelloggs does not exactly breed confidence that profiteering isn't one of the prime motives.

So, at the very least, respect and listen to the opinions of Doctors who MIGHT be speaking some sense and not assume they are quacks trying to sell their consultancy or products. It could also be applied to Starting Strength, but we don't because it is basic human adaptation of muscle and tendons that has a chance to revolutionise; general health, brain protection, ageing, approach to physiotherapy, by reducing the profiteering surgeries on gullible people. These "functional" doctors have imparted a lot to risk in moving away from the insurance model to actually start fixing people's ailments by monitoring a broad range of bloods, urine, etc. They are fed up with shovelling pills down people's throats and not seeing people get better through the body's inherent ability to adapt.

What will bring humanity to the ultimate health are weekly monitoring of Bloods, Urine, Sleep, oxygen levels, strength levels, weight, etc. Humanity will then be able to monitor their own progress against their own baseline values (which are genetic and environmental). Someone may have a higher baseline blood sugar, iron level, oxygenation level, etc. than someone else. It makes sense.

Current monitors are not up to current medical diagnostic monitoring standards for a lot of the above (apologies for all fitbit users). The reason that a diabetic or obese person with an element of intelligence has picked up on these things is due to desperation in seeing their blood/urine values get worse without hope. I reversed my figures. If people are interested, I will post them up.

The key point being made is that "highly organised profiteering" is seen as a harmless pastime, but it is diminishing the progress of human health. Examples below;
(1) scientifically constructed foods that induce addictive highs (as proven with food lab testing),
(2) fridges stocked to the brim with foods from across the world completely out of season,
(3) people living in fully heated homes/offices all year round,
(4) people washing themselves and their houses with antibiotics to kill all germs,
(5) allowing food to be sprayed with Glyphosphate (there are just a few court cases building up on cancer!!) to kill a lot of good bacteria,
(6) antibiotics being injected in to animals and growth hormone to increase their meat yield for profit reasons.
(7) gut bacteria being diminished through antibiotic use and constant drip feeding of foods with less "good bacteria".
(8) increases in immune system diseases, peanut allergies in the young, etc.
(9) reduction in human testosterone caused by an unknown combination of factors ranging from chemical exposures.
(10) shovelling pills down people's throats that just manipulate the body's natural healing pathology to give you an improved feeling when a lot of it has to do with placebo effect.

At the very least, keep an open mind until you are desperately unhealthy and have enough drive to research this stuff yourself.


I read multiple sources of material from everywhere I can. I monitor my bloods/urine every six months and for the past 9 years. I have seen my body fix itself. I don't believe everything that one person says, I cross validate it with general themes. It is definitely a better approach than sitting there and swallowing the crap that comes out of the TV. The crap studies filled with manipulations and media punchlines. The hundreds of professors who are "on the pay" of the industries to protect their funding stream.



Humanity is gullible and lazy in their thinking. The internet - and soon accurate health monitoring - has made, and will make, a big difference for self-educating and releasing us to a better mix. A mix of the old and the new.

[kris90]

That has nothing to do with keto or any of the stuff you’re talking about. Many vegans on a high carb diet report exactly the same reduction of chronic disease and have science to back up their claims.

Living a sedentary lifestyle, eating like shit and being alive 70 years + leads to illness. Duh...

It's easy to explain vegan/high carb who actually do OK:

1) if they live in strong sunlight, they are still fat burners despite eating carbs. UV light alone on the skin lowers blood sugar SANS insulin. So their insulin sensitivity is always really good from being in the sun, so they remain fat burners despite their diet.

2) if the above is not true and these are vegans living in cold climates, they will do OK short term, but eventually wind up with an autoimmune disease, cancer, neurodegeneration or heart disease. Why? Because excessive carbs favor apoptosis -> cell death and replacement with stem cells. That process is fine in moderation, because it keeps us cancer free and allows us to replace bad cells so we can feel good and function well. But if that process is used 24/7, and we cannot use autophagy (cell recycling) which occurs during fasting/ketosis and sleep, we wind up with stem cell depletion, and that's when shit hits the fan.

I guess I have to post this like once a week now. People are living longer than ever before, and our bodies inevitably break down in various ways. If you look at historical life expectancy, it's almost like we starting living longer once we started doing all this unnatural shit like: washing our hands, treating our drinking water, vaccinating against dread diseases, taking medications, perfecting surgical techniques and medical devices, and yes, barbell training. I'm not saying that unnatural things are necessarily good, I'm saying that longevity is unnatural, and to obtain it you have to do unnatural things.

lifeexpectancy.jpg

Longevity is actually better than ever. Cuz you're right, we're living longer. But we're living with diseases. All diseases are, are mitochondrial mutations that get turned on to keep us alive longer. The body does whatever it has to to remain alive. See above. Cancer is just a protective mechanism of our stem cells. The cells resist cell death because stem cell depletion = organ failure = instant death. All the diseases we face: obesity, diabetes, cancer, neurodegeneration are to slow us down and put us into an energy-conserving state to keep us alive.

So my point is, if we make a few simple changes like using a diet that favors autophagy over apoptosis, getting our sleep cycle back on track (we need high levels of melatonin which regulates cell recycling/replacement) by getting plenty of natural sunlight during the day, and shutting off lights at night or using incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs, then we can achieve both longevity and a good quality of life. Most people in their 40s and 50s have a chronic illness, and although they may live until 90, they suffer for half their life. And kids who already have diseases still may live to be 80, but again, they suffer all their life.

[Mark Rippetoe]

All diseases are, are mitochondrial mutations that get turned on to keep us alive longer. The body does whatever it has to to remain alive. See above. Cancer is just a protective mechanism of our stem cells. The cells resist cell death because stem cell depletion = organ failure = instant death. All the diseases we face: obesity, diabetes, cancer, neurodegeneration are to slow us down and put us into an energy-conserving state to keep us alive.

This is now Coyote/Roadrunner "science." I'm getting tired of you plugging your quack doctor's insane bullshit on this board. This is the last post I will approve. Go away.

No-one is denying that a combination of technological breakthroughs haven't brought humanity a step ahead. But what takes them a couple of steps back, is "organised human profiteering".

Please list those developments that brought humanity a step ahead that did not involve an organized profit motive.

Do not bury what people have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years in the process. They also had a few intelligent people amongst them. These things may have not been written down but they have been passed down from generations to generations and we look at certain things and dismiss them. We dismiss SOME OF THEM because we do not understand the mechanics of why they work.

A great example of this would be a normal human omnivorous diet, followed by most human cultures over history.

Some of these "skewed and profiteering" new tech ideas and principles that are slowly being debunked (e.g. saturated fat) involve;
...a great simple punchline for the gullible masses,
...a few pioneering studies to promote them,
...enough money to take advantage and sell some products off the back of them,
...a lobbying protection fund to defend them or reduce the speed in which "they are debunked" through media confusion.

A great example of this would be "Veganism."

The state of medicine with one food nutrition course at US medical school being sponsored by Kelloggs does not exactly breed confidence that profiteering isn't one of the prime motives.

And no courses on strength training.

So, at the very least, respect and listen to the opinions of Doctors who MIGHT be speaking some sense and not assume they are quacks trying to sell their consultancy or products.

Right. Like doctors who tell us things like this:

All diseases are, are mitochondrial mutations that get turned on to keep us alive longer. The body does whatever it has to to remain alive. See above. Cancer is just a protective mechanism of our stem cells. The cells resist cell death because stem cell depletion = organ failure = instant death. All the diseases we face: obesity, diabetes, cancer, neurodegeneration are to slow us down and put us into an energy-conserving state to keep us alive.

It could also be applied to Starting Strength, but we don't because it is basic human adaptation of muscle and tendons that has a chance to revolutionise; general health, brain protection, ageing, approach to physiotherapy, by reducing the profiteering surgeries on gullible people.

That's kind of you.

These "functional" doctors have imparted a lot to risk in moving away from the insurance model to actually start fixing people's ailments by monitoring a broad range of bloods, urine, etc. They are fed up with shovelling pills down people's throats and not seeing people get better through the body's inherent ability to adapt.

Right. And this is not a business model, for evil profiteering.

What will bring humanity to the ultimate health are weekly monitoring of Bloods, Urine, Sleep, oxygen levels, strength levels, weight, etc. Humanity will then be able to monitor their own progress against their own baseline values (which are genetic and environmental). Someone may have a higher baseline blood sugar, iron level, oxygenation level, etc. than someone else. It makes sense.

Right. Like people have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years.

Current monitors are not up to current medical diagnostic monitoring standards for a lot of the above (apologies for all fitbit users). The reason that a diabetic or obese person with an element of intelligence has picked up on these things is due to desperation in seeing their blood/urine values get worse without hope. I reversed my figures. If people are interested, I will post them up.

My vote is that you do not post them. Please?

The key point being made is that "highly organised profiteering" is seen as a harmless pastime, but it is diminishing the progress of human health. Examples below;
(1) scientifically constructed foods that induce addictive highs (as proven with food lab testing),

Yes, we are all helpless pawns.

(2) fridges stocked to the brim with foods from across the world completely out of season,

This is indeed outrageous.

(3) people living in fully heated homes/offices all year round,

We don't do this here in Texas in August. In North Dakota in January, I can see an argument to be made for keeping the house at 62, so we don't die. Old people, of course, like it warmer, but we don't need them anymore.

(4) people washing themselves and their houses with antibiotics to kill all germs,

Finally, a good point in a sea of bizarre nonsense.

(5) allowing food to be sprayed with Glyphosphate (there are just a few court cases building up on cancer!!) to kill a lot of good bacteria,

You do realize that weeds, not food, is sprayed with glyphosate, right? And you do realize that glyphosate is a herbicide, not a bactericide, right?

(6) antibiotics being injected in to animals and growth hormone to increase their meat yield for profit reasons.

False. Bullshit. I have dealt with this on the podcast.

(7) gut bacteria being diminished through antibiotic use and constant drip feeding of foods with less "good bacteria".

WTF is "drip feeding of food with less 'good bacteria'"? The fuck???

(8) increases in immune system diseases, peanut allergies in the young, etc.

This is because we don't allow them to die anymore. You must have a different approach.

(9) reduction in human testosterone caused by an unknown combination of factors ranging from chemical exposures.

One factor is probably the fact that testosterone-related behaviors are actively being selected against in modern Western Society, and the organism downregulates in response. Maybe.

(10) shovelling pills down people's throats that just manipulate the body's natural healing pathology to give you an improved feeling when a lot of it has to do with placebo effect.[/QUOTE]

No argument here, except that people have been trained to expect The Doctor to fix it with a pill.

At the very least, keep an open mind until you are desperately unhealthy and have enough drive to research this stuff yourself.

Your research has been impressive.

I read multiple sources of material from everywhere I can. I monitor my bloods/urine every six months and for the past 9 years. I have seen my body fix itself. I don't believe everything that one person says, I cross validate it with general themes. It is definitely a better approach than sitting there and swallowing the crap that comes out of the TV. The crap studies filled with manipulations and media punchlines. The hundreds of professors who are "on the pay" of the industries to protect their funding stream.

It is obvious that you have swallowed a whole lot of crap from somewhere.

Humanity is gullible and lazy in their thinking.

I couldn't agree more.