Why not starting strength and "clean keto" combined ? Why not starting strength and "clean keto" combined ?

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Thread: Why not starting strength and "clean keto" combined ?

  1. #1
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    Default Why not starting strength and "clean keto" combined ?

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    I have listened to a number of your latest podcasts and followed your methods to increase strength substantially and consistently. With the addition of keto I have made substantial progress and have managed to reverse diabetes and all other complications. From 11 tablets a day to none. I am now cycling between keto and low-carb and have been off all medications for 1.5 years.

    I would wholeheartedly agree that your method Is the optimum solution for defence against; sports injury, sarcopenia, lack of Bdnf for keeping up brain function. Barbell form should be taught from the age of 8 to all school children and above.

    From a diet perspective, you mention that keto suppresses appetite well but you do not make the gains like you would when being fed carbs. That is definitely true but misses the point if you are to create an all-encompassing solution that also gets people off medsications for diabetic and highly obese populations.

    For example, you mention that aesthetics are not as important but a gut for a diagnosed diabetic is significant. It can mean the difference between higher blood sugar, blood pressure and organ damage shown in their bloods/analysis (and high medication follows from that).

    The reason that keto is a bit more than being "similar to Atkins", is because "clean keto" has introduced the concept of "clean fats", omega 3 fish, nuts and vegetables as the mainstay of the diet. Meats are consumed in less quantity (2 or 3 times a week in small portions). This is very similar to the famous Cretan islander diet. It is famous for longevity. What would be fascinating would be if you officially combined "clean keto" with starting strength for "diabetics on heavy medication" and highly obese people on high meds.

    During their first 6 months on "clean keto" plus "starting strength" they would make;
    (a) enormous weight loss gains whilst they are still in the honeymoon period of "form learning" strength gains. If required, people can go down to 2 sessions per week instead of 3.
    (b) it would overcome any ongoing complaints from newbies that they have gained a lot of fat during the first few months of doing the method with the existing "higher carb" method you currently recommend.
    (c) it would sell "clean keto" as a lifestyle approach that is the cleanest version of how our ancestry overcame low-carb and keto periods during winter time. Keto is definitely the reason why our ancestry survived during winter periods hunting animals and scavenging for food. To deny that would be like denying your method is the best solution in a sea of bullshit methods.

    Apologies for the long post. Keep up the great work.

  2. #2
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    I agree completely that keto is a good choice for people in circumstances where it helps with pathology. But if it's okay with you, I'll just recommend a normal diet with lots of meat protein for everybody else.

  3. #3
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    Fair play. Keep up the good work.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by flathead View Post
    Keto is definitely the reason why our ancestry survived during winter periods hunting animals and scavenging for food. To deny that would be like denying your method is the best solution in a sea of bullshit methods.
    Being fat helped too. So did being strong. Our skinny and weak ancestors would take issue with this.

  5. #5
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    Skinny and weak ancestry would use nous, learning and traps to overcome lack of strength. Elders would have told young ones to bulk up on the available carb sources before winter and build up some fat reserves.

    Using fat as fuel comes hand in hand with heavy suppression of appetite because the body is tricked in to switching to a "fat burning fuel" for winter and survival purposes. It is a pure and simple hack. Keto (when done properly) is not just a minor fad-diet it goes hand-in-hand with autophagy and fixes the body from the 24/7 "carb-pathway", "body destroying" society we have become.

    From the volume of studies that are coming out it is clear that the pointer is starting to direct to;
    (a) Fat Fuel Mode combined with external ketones being good for long endurance athletics who are fat-adapted (the use of exogenous ketones is testament to it being a bona-fida fuel source).
    (b) keto being good for reducing the carb fuel source for certain cancers (and reducing its fuel source to increase the likelihood of it spreading).
    (c) keto being good for replacing carb-fuel pathways that have been destroyed and subsequently alleviating dementia/alzheimers issues.
    (d) keto re-writing the diet and nutrition science books because a subset of the pathways act in ways that are not similar to carb fuel. It is entirely likely that reducing 3 sessions to 2 sessions per week could be all the change required to get similar strength gains when heavily keto'd. I can't prove it, but the literature is growing.

    Combining keto with "starting strength" for a subset of the population who need it, would transform the 6 month results for people. It would drive their uptake of starting strength and keep overweight and diabetic people from falling off the programme (with hunger pangs and gaining too much weight). It is an opportunity to marry the two in matrimony producing devastating short term body composition results.

    You have to believe in the prophecy of Olivia Newton John's 80s video for "physical", without the steroids of course!

  6. #6
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    Are you currently lifting and if so how much? My experience is keto is an easy way to lose weight if you are sedentary or doing cardio but good luck making any progress under the bar with it. I tried, I failed, I now love carbs.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffc View Post
    Are you currently lifting and if so how much? My experience is keto is an easy way to lose weight if you are sedentary or doing cardio but good luck making any progress under the bar with it. I tried, I failed, I now love carbs.
    Keto is not for strength athletes, and even a cursory acquaintance with energy systems and their power/capacity ratios will tell us why.

  8. #8
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    "Fat for fuel" is a valid source of fuel for strength gain because;

    (a) It has yet to be studied in depth as an alternative fuel source. The fuel source will be understood better as further studies come out thick and fast.

    (b) keto-flu occurs in some people who's guts take longer to switch to a high fat burn fuel source. Again, it is early days, and more info is coming out for overcoming this. You are trying to switch a high-fat burn fueling system ON for, possibly the first time. People did actually starve and fast for multiple days and still having energy. This is possible, I went for 2.5 days without eating and still had good levels of energy. Granted, I didn't push the boat out and complete a training session. But this is a bona-fida fueling system that made our bodies resilient till fridges and better food storage came along !!

    (c) people had to complete strength feats during winter. I am sure that they didn't lift only half the weight whilst they were in keto.

    (d) I am not arguing that it is for strength "athletes", I am arguing that it is a valid approach for "sedentary obese" or diabetic people who are novices.

    (e) There is more to having the energy to shift a specific target weight than having a carb-loaded body that may be reducing the effectiveness of tackling your diabetic or obesity problem. The more you achieve to reverse poor health the greater the ability to overcome the challenge of getting a series of PRs OR feeling happy with being satiated and not eating "many carbs". Mind-over-matter. Harnessing the emergency superpower to lift things in emergencies. Sheer willpower. Overcoming adversity. Someone who has never had to do that, will not appreciate the energy and motivation this gives a person.

    (f) What I shift in figures has nothing to do with the argument. I wasted my time training "on and off" on machines for 17 years making minimal progress and finally, in the last two years I have made 300% more strength progress with solid, linear and consistent increases on the deadlift, squat, press, pull-ups and shoulder press. All thanks to Mr Rippetoe's videos on form and linear progression. For 7 years as a diabetic I saw my blood results showing "fattly liver", kidney values high, blood pressure high and diabetic meds increasing exponentially. 11 tablets a day and now zero. Diabetes was meant to be a progressive degenerative disease, and now people are reversing it. Reversing it mainly with low-carb and fasting interventions. These are strong autophagous interventions. Strength training is also an enormous autophagous and metabolic intervention. Both combined, gives maximum gains and increased metabolic changes for a specific subset of people. It doesn't somehow dilute the message of carbs being the preferred source of fuel for the majority, it is complementary and adds some solutions for a subset of people.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Sullivan View Post
    Keto is not for strength athletes, and even a cursory acquaintance with energy systems and their power/capacity ratios will tell us why.
    Correct. I tried Atkins twice. Each time I lost a lot of weight but ended up skinny fat and soft. I now try to get around 200g protein, 200+carbs, and about 80-100 grams of fat. I have a fair amount of fat to lose but itís coming off slowly and not interfering with training. Iím a few weeks away from my 59th birthday, 5í-7Ē weight 233, and my 1RMS are Squat 425, Bench 250, Deadlift 500, Press 195. Iím doing an upper/lower in a nine day week.

    I feel that if you eliminate all the silly bullshit and train correctly (major movements only) and with correct recovery a normal diet works fine.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    I donít hold much in the appeal to the ďnaturalĒ or how our distant ancestors may have lived, as if somehow early humans were some kind of optimized longevity machines. Survival and reproduction, yes. Longevity, no. Weíve figured out how to protect ourselves from much of the early hazards of human life with vaccines, sanitation, fences, building codes, helmets, idiot lights and warning stickers, etc. Evolution did not prepare us to consistently survive past the age of rearing viable offspring. Sure, itís an advantage if your family group or village has an elder to pass on accumulated knowledge, but you only need a few of those to get the benefit. Too many old people is just a drain on resources to feed, clothe, and house the doddering old buggers. Plus, you get more than 2 elders together and theyíll spend more time arguing than passing on anything useful.

    As Rip has said, lifting barbells is unnatural. I think that living to 100 is also unnatural, and I plan to use all sorts of unnatural methods to accomplish that.

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