COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 1024

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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #10231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnsonville View Post
    Trump was an awful candidate in 2016. He had almost no actual ideas but rather a bunch of slogans, but I will say he entirely over performed and was in my mind a good choice in 2020. The fact that Rand Paul ran in 2016 and got over looked pisses me off.
    ^ This reminds me of an exchange between Ben Shapiro and some MAGA commentator from shortly after the 2016 election:

    Bateman: But you aren't happy about Trump winning, right Ben? After all, you criticized him heavily throughout the primary.

    Shapiro: Well, I'm happy that Hillary lost. Trump wasn't my candidate. But you know, I'm not hysterical about it, like the liberals. If he governs in a way that I like, then I'll support him.

    Bateman: If Trump governs in a way that you'll like, then he'll be gone in four years.

    Bateman was, of course, completely correct. Instead of "making the hedge fund guys pay more taxes" like he promised to do amid peals of raucous applause on the 2016 campaign trail, Trump governed as a typical McConnell-Pelosi 'fiscal conservative', destroying his support among key elements of his 2016 coalition. Seriously, in what universe do sane men watch an election where the party whose platform was "vote for us and we will put $2000 in an envelope and mail it to you" beat the party running on "Well hey, we were in charge while you lost your business and had to sign up for $15/hr at amazon, but don't worry because we won't let the federal budget deficit get too big!"

    Small government is not poplar. Fiscal conservatism is not popular. Every candidate who has represented them since the 2007 financial crash--every Jim Webb, every Rand Paul, every Jeb Bush, every Marco Rubio, every Ted Cruz, every Scott Walker--has gotten their freakin' clock cleaned in the primary or the general by a more populist (i.e. socially conservative, economically left) alternative. I still remember Paul Krugman's simpering NYT editorial early in the 2016 primary cycle: "This is the strongest field of Republican primary candidates in generations!" No, they weren't. They were a bunch of ghoulish supply-side asswipes who lost to a fucking reality show host because their donors forced them to campaign under this knuckle-dragging "Every time we cut corporate taxes, an angel gets its wings!" bullshit.

    If men like Johnsonville maintain control over our party in the years to come, then western civilization will not survive.

  2. #10232
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    Quote Originally Posted by No insect View Post
    It would most likely be better for the Republicans too if they found another candidate.
    Good for Republicans and good for Trump. He could be more influential out of office. They buried Trump with the Capitol Hill incident, they are resurrecting him with impeachment.

  3. #10233
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    My Nanna passed away yesterday at the ripe old age of 100. The only reason I mention this here, is because she was vaccinated for COVID five days prior to her death.
    I don't believe in coincidences.
    I do wonder how safe this vaccine really is, and to what extent it has been tested in an elderly population. These are questions we are never likely to find the answer to, given the world we are currently living in.

  4. #10234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haghstull View Post
    Nationalism is not 'illiberal' at all; it is the quintessential mode of liberal geopolitics. Nationalism emerged out of the French and American Revolutions (often looked upon as the wellsprings of modern liberalism as well) as an alternative to monarchy, i.e. as a rebuff of traditional/reactionary/illiberal principles that had guided the sociological organization of civilization up until that point. Any analytic framework that maps these two currents 1:1 athwart each other is missing important stuff. (Of course, they are not fully in lockstep with one another, either).

    Let me offer a rhetorical question that might help reinforce this point: can you think of any liberal thinker post-1800 that was not, in some sense, a nationalist?
    So, everything after the sweeping away of the Ancien Regime is coloured by the Enlightenment, therefore, everything that came after can be tenuously categorised as being within the sphere of "liberalism"? Very clever, I guess. Well done. Go back further and you'll hit upon Socrates.

    A nationalist can oppose mass immigration, and the genocide of his people through demographic replacement, without getting bogged down with the hair-splitting distinctions like you're trying to make.

    The philosophy and politics of Third position/national socialism flies in the face of the egalitarianism central to modern, liberal thought. NS's own thinkers clearly state so: it is anti-democratic, anti-materialist, and anti-individualist as a minimum. NS is anti-conservative nationalism. To call it anything else than "illiberal" is just sophistry. Yes, you could look at something like Hitler's NS and trace the philosophical lineage of its use of "fraternity" to the Enlightenment, but so what?

    Yours sounds exactly like the same kind of argument I recently had with a left-leaning, progressive member of my family over Christmas time. Its the kind of argument a lefty applies to borders, race, or any other nationalist concerns. It went along the lines of:

    "Actually, I think you'll find if you go back far enough, the so-called "British" people are not genetically monolithic at all and are an admixture of Norman... Anglo Saxon... Roman... Early European Farmer... Western Hunter Gatherer... We're all immigrants, so mass immigration should continue because it's normal and natural, and you have no real identity anyway!".

    This kind of argument is obviously just an attempt to divorce us from any sense of belonging to our land, and invalidates any sense of hereditary achievement or entitlement, and it is exclusively applied to white people. A leftist will invent a hypocrisy, identify it and ask the nationalist to explain his way out of it. It's a classic, and of course I'm not accusing you of this, Hag. It just reminded me of it. Is the aim of your point to undermine the idea that nationalism could be a legitimate alternative to the neo-liberal order?

    Your rhetorical question reinforces your point, but rather than clarifying anything, your point does more to confuse things. As far as thinkers go, without getting into actual Third Positionists like Gentile, just look at Nietzsche. Infamous for capturing the angst of a young person, or anyone who feels alienated by the modern world, and sending them off on a radical political trajectory. You could call him liberal by your definition, and he's incorrectly linked to nationalism.

    I still like Nietzsche. He offers a source of solace or inspiration to people who feel alienated by the modern system - but is he a fundamentally a challenge to modernity? No. Does he lead to real nationalism? No. There is often a split on my side of things between the Nietzschean perspective and the Christian perspective. For my money, Jesus and Christianity offers more of a challenge to modernity than Nietzsche ever did.

    What's good about him is that he presents all of the problems which we moderns face and have to confront, and ultimately find a solution to. He offers the death of God analogy - not only is God dead, but with this comes the death of the absolute. Absolute truth, absolute morality... beauty, goodness - all dead. Medieval philosophy and scholasticism started with God to reason its way to all of these things. Natural law, etc. started with a coherent belief in the divine.

    In taking on Nietzsche's challenge, as the first philosopher I ever read as a naive young lad, he pushed me towards a radical Leftist, egoistic anarchism. A kind of politics based on absolute affirmation of the ego, of the self. It lead to me to critique the modern left in the way it was so moralistic, with all of its Christian notions bound up within it.

    Years later, if Nietzsche was still the be-all end-all for me, I probably would still be a post-Left anarchist type. I still think that's the proper reading of him. He is basically Antifa.

    Having grown up, I realise to oppose the post-modern understanding of the world with Nietzscheanism is fundamentally limited. Think of the things that Nietzsche affirms: relativism, no absolute truth, a hatred of morality, seeing the world of power relations and everything is will to power. All of these things nest nicely with the modern, relativist world-view.

    I don't believe that Nietzscheans have properly internalised Nietzsche. People on the right will see moral injustice, and become red-pilled, and come to Nietzsche. Someone, who drifts across to nationalism, will perhaps see that their group is perhaps unfairly coming under attack, that they're unfairly being discriminated against, they will see the system is organised in such a way as to reward degenerate behaviour and appears to punish good people.

    They notice that certain groups behave in certain ways, and feel motivated to stop them. Before you know it, these same people are affirming Nietscheanism - and they're saying no group is neither good nor evil, they don't blame people for exploiting us, and have this mentality of "and If we had power, we would be exploiting them". It's all power-relations. They sacrifice their sense of absolute morality and absolute truth - and claim their only morality is that they wish for their people to flourish. Then what?

    Nietzsche is a modern thinker who is constantly accused of being philosophical fuel for the Nazis, and he claims to oppose the liberal. He's actually none of those things. He is anti-populist and anti-nationalist. You could say he's "liberal" according to your definition, and therefore according to you technically "in some sense a nationalist". Again, so what? He proves your point, but what is the substance of your point?

    Have you ever actually read any Third Position stuff?

  5. #10235
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    Concertina Wire Now Being Installed Around the Capitol

    https://twitter.com/themodalice/stat...187663873?s=20

    This seems like way more than simply protecting the facility for the Inauguration.

    All of the troops are heavily armed, too.

    Remember when BLM & Antifa were rioting during the summer, when the National Guard was finally called in, they were ordered to have their rifles UNLOADED?

    Hmmm... are some of these Internet "experts" correct, and the Capitol is going to be the site of military tribunals?

    And why, after screwing around for months, did Trump FINALLY declassify all of those documents and release them, with only five days left in his administration?

    Get the tomato plants in, and start popping the popcorn for the show?

  6. #10236
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    More and more of the left now saying we can't stay locked down. Newsweek reports that a study shows lockdowns are not mitigating the virus more than voluntary methods. Soon, the PCR ct goes down dramatically (silently of course) and the virus is defeated.

  7. #10237
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderFun View Post
    In fairness to Trump, that is nearly every politician, especially any that run for president.
    In fairness to Trump, he did enact the policies he articulated prior to the election that reduced unemployment across all demographics. He did not start a foreign war, and he brought deployed troops home, as he said he would. He tried like hell to secure the southern border, as he said he would. He got more done with peace in the Middle East than any other president in US history, and he accomplished more favorable trade negotiation than any other US president, as he said he would. We've already handed them a fraudulent election, let's not grant them their talking points too.

    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    A little update from Italy if anyone is interested: something like 60,000 bars and restaurants (and even some gyms and swimming pools) have organized to reopen starting from today, following every sanitary norm but serving clients regularly. A gym franchise called GimFive opened all of its gyms (2500 square meters gyms) and they haven't been fined or closed by the police even if they were present.
    This happened because the government announced harsher restrictions on bars and restaurants (close everything from 6pm,no matter what the situation is).
    Mabye we still have some hope, now we'll see how our government really feels about its citizens. Hopefully these people will not stop at the first sign of trouble. Of course the media and govt will attribute the next third wave to this instead of the new british variant like they were going to, or mabye both, it's more convenient.
    We've had some protests back in October but they were mostly overwhelmed with vandalism so nobody paid attention to those. This instead makes more sense.
    I wonder if the Italian Government is interested in The Science? https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13484

  8. #10238
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    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    A little update from Italy if anyone is interested: something like 60,000 bars and restaurants (and even some gyms and swimming pools) have organized to reopen starting from today, following every sanitary norm but serving clients regularly. A gym franchise called GimFive opened all of its gyms (2500 square meters gyms) and they haven't been fined or closed by the police even if they were present.
    This happened because the government announced harsher restrictions on bars and restaurants (close everything from 6pm,no matter what the situation is).
    Mabye we still have some hope, now we'll see how our government really feels about its citizens. Hopefully these people will not stop at the first sign of trouble. Of course the media and govt will attribute the next third wave to this instead of the new british variant like they were going to, or mabye both, it's more convenient.
    We've had some protests back in October but they were mostly overwhelmed with vandalism so nobody paid attention to those. This instead makes more sense.
    My family in the south have stated that the fatigue from all of the nonsense of the various levels of Italian government have been getting to them for months. Christmas was a crushing blow.

    I spoke to a colleague in London yesterday; the fatigue in the UK is also very real there, too. The problem, he said, was that there's just no impulse for opposition amongst the British as opposed to in the United States. I told him that it's far less here than he's been lead to believe.

  9. #10239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satch12879 View Post
    My family in the south have stated that the fatigue from all of the nonsense of the various levels of Italian government have been getting to them for months. Christmas was a crushing blow.

    I spoke to a colleague in London yesterday; the fatigue in the UK is also very real there, too. The problem, he said, was that there's just no impulse for opposition amongst the British as opposed to in the United States. I told him that it's far less here than he's been lead to believe.
    Not with a bang, but with a whimper...

  10. #10240
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnst_nhb View Post
    More and more of the left now saying we can't stay locked down. Newsweek reports that a study shows lockdowns are not mitigating the virus more than voluntary methods. Soon, the PCR ct goes down dramatically (silently of course) and the virus is defeated.
    Milwaukee ended capacity limits this week. The Chicago mayor announced yesterday she is pushing to re-open there. New York, except the city, is now re-opening. Its a Christmas miracle! Which one of you was the one who said things would re-open right after the election was over?

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