COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 1368

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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #13671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Satch is not stupid, he's not a science-denier, and you know this. People apply critical thinking at the level of their particular familiarity with the subject. You're a medical lab guy, and your level of familiarity exceeds that of me and Satch. Without the knowing the specifics of viral lifecycles (a failing he and I share with Dr. Fauci), we would have no way of knowing that viruses die almost immediately outside the host cell, and that is the reason that masks make absolutely no sense, and never have. It also explains Grantham's comment. But to the even-intelligent lay person, a filtration engineer, for example, it seems quite reasonable that if a thing entering your body through an airway can make you sick, if you interrupt the entrance to the airway you can avoid the sickness caused by the pathogen. The fact that all that other shit is normal flora is irrelevant, and was only on the list for scare-effect.

    The thing that bothers me the most in every discussion of this kind of mask minutia is Who Gives A Fuck? The disease caused by the virus doesn't kill anybody that's not already dying anyway. It's not in any sense a pandemic, it is easily and cheaply treated very effectively by ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, and it's not a public health concern. IT IS A POLITICAL TOOL, and that's all it's ever been.
    Understood and agreed. I apologize to Satch for implying he/she was a science denier. I was more making a parallel point, but it read that way.

    I’ll be more careful next time.

  2. #13672
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Rowe View Post
    It is obvious that an aeroslized virion-loaded droplet can be suspended in the air. It is obvious that the turbulent flow of air inside of a building is sufficient to distribute the aerosols, and the only factor increasing the likelihood of infection is the density of virions relative to the volume of air. There's also not a lot of UV radiation inside. It's also pretty obvious that even filtrete can't stop it -- especially with poor PPE compliance and fitment. Something that not even trained medical professionals have ever adhered to...

    But more than anything, John, point to the fucking EXACT point in the data that clearly shows where the MANDATES had a significant and obvious impact on the pandemic's propagation. Don't forget to factor in the approximate 23 day period from case identification to mortality.

    I'll wait, but mostly for Seattle to finish collapsing.
    But once again, Who Gives A Fuck? The disease caused by the virus doesn't kill anybody that's not already dying anyway. It's not in any sense a pandemic, it is easily and cheaply treated very effectively by ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, and it's not a public health concern. IT IS A POLITICAL TOOL, and that's all it's ever been. And everybody seems to get such a boner from pretending like this is Ebola. I just don't understand why we're still talking about this in terms of public health.

  3. #13673
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    It could have been an incredible political tool, but instead we developed a vaccine. At least Co-Vid made us recognize that a good portion of the population is "already dying." There was an utter lack of science that informed our political decisions from every angle. Because the science supported unpopular political solutions that would require dramatic changes to our societal structure and most importantly require individuals to take personal responsibility for their own health. Unfortunately personal responsibility is not a character trait we display any longer.

    But instead we kept McDonalds and liquor stores open but shut down the damn gyms. Sounds about right.

  4. #13674
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcockerham View Post
    It could have been an incredible political tool, but instead we developed a vaccine.
    You don't know much about these vaccines.

    At least Co-Vid made us recognize that a good portion of the population is "already dying."
    In what way? Because it killed hundreds of millions of people?

    There was an utter lack of science that informed our political decisions from every angle.
    The data was there. "Science" in this sense of the word is a form of politics.

    Because the science supported unpopular political solutions that would require dramatic changes to our societal structure and most importantly require individuals to take personal responsibility for their own health.
    "The science" supported the popular political solutions in their entirety. Masks, lockdowns, grandparents dying alone in cells, denial of effective treatments, billions spent on Big Pharma bullshit vaccines, millions out of work, fortunes lost, children damaged irreparably -- all this chaos is the result of your dramatic changes that were in fact popular. As of now, you have not typed a single correct fact.

    Unfortunately personal responsibility is not a character trait we display any longer. But instead we kept McDonalds and liquor stores open but shut down the damn gyms. Sounds about right.
    You're warming up.

  5. #13675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    But once again, Who Gives A Fuck? The disease caused by the virus doesn't kill anybody that's not already dying anyway. It's not in any sense a pandemic, it is easily and cheaply treated very effectively by ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, and it's not a public health concern. IT IS A POLITICAL TOOL, and that's all it's ever been. And everybody seems to get such a boner from pretending like this is Ebola. I just don't understand why we're still talking about this in terms of public health.
    I do. You're right, of course, about SARS-COV-2, but I wasn't talking about that virus. I was talking about all aerosolized virions. It is a public health issue precisely because everyone needs to realize that, whether it's world ending or not, all of these fucking mandates were pointless. If we had changed nothing there would have been no discernable difference. It was also, in the correct sense, exactly a pandemic. Because pandemic has nothing to do with fatality and everything to do with the spread. It was a stupid, shitty pandemic, and it was turned into one of the worst catastrophes in human history because leaders and followers all went full pants-on-head retarded from fear and malice completely irrespective of whatever the virus did to its host.

    People need to stop believing and feeling so much. They need to THINK, or we're collectively fucked.

  6. #13676
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcockerham View Post
    It could have been an incredible political tool, but instead we developed a vaccine.
    The vaccines are also a political tool. It wasn't coincidence they waited to announce their completion until after the election.

  7. #13677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post

    The disease caused by the virus doesn't kill anybody that's not already dying anyway.
    Understood and I believe very well established.

    Do we know if the demographic known as the “dying anyway” lost time on earth because of Covid in a statistically significant way?

    It's a grim topic but if matters greatly in understanding the lessons of the response.

  8. #13678
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    Mr. Rippetoe - I think my words are getting lost in translation.

    When I said we "instead we developed a vaccine" I meant primarily that it is the typical American obsession with producing "easy" solutions to seemingly complex obstacles despite the fact that we are aware of an easy solution. We like to buy our answer here when the empirical data that you highlighted suggested that there was a solution, but it is mostly (in my uninformed estimation) tied directly to our lack of consideration for personal responsibility. We are an incredibly unhealthy nation in more ways than one.

    Additionally my use of the word "science" was pure in nature. I was referring to the empirical data you referenced. I am not sold on the "cures" you mentioned because I am not informed or smart enough to know. But I do know that the empirical data suggested that you are right in stating that it the virus was most likely to kill those that are already dying. The only way to solve that is to take personal responsibility for one's health. If you're unwilling to do that, or highlight the fact that we are a grossly out of shape nation and piss off the medical establishment and the agri-business donors, then you are doomed to buy your easy answer - thus get a jab in your arm. I disagreed with most of the mainstream "scientific" answers peddled by the mainstream scientific community, and was downright floored I'd get attacked anytime I brought up that we should be walking more and eating less. For fuck sakes - how is that a wrong thing to say?

    The only answer to this mess isn't universal healthcare. The only thing I can think of is an honest capitalistic healthcare system in which we charge the dog shit out of you if you have a lifestyle disease. I don't care if you eat a god damn twinkie or smoke a pack of cigarettes a day. But you bet your ass I'm not going to pay for your poor lifestyle habits. Here's your bill, and it is due by Thursday. But unfortunately we will never see the day that this will be possible, because even our Republican party is in bed with the companies that are making a killing off people being fat and sick. Personal responsibility no longer exists and thus the nation is doomed to die as a fat mass.

  9. #13679
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilead View Post
    I pray it does NOT happen because they could and would use it as a catalyst to go into super overdrive to try and take away many given freedoms especially the 2nd Amendment.
    It would however explain the DOJ's obsession with white supremacists as a grave national security threat and their birthing of the white nationalist threat narrative with the FBI orchestrated Jan 6th event.

  10. #13680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    But once again, Who Gives A Fuck? The disease caused by the virus doesn't kill anybody that's not already dying anyway. It's not in any sense a pandemic, it is easily and cheaply treated very effectively by ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, and it's not a public health concern. IT IS A POLITICAL TOOL, and that's all it's ever been. And everybody seems to get such a boner from pretending like this is Ebola. I just don't understand why we're still talking about this in terms of public health.
    "Mask science" is like a chew toy thrown out so people waste time at the peripheries instead of getting to the heart of the issue. This pattern emerges in all kinds of political debates, usually kindled by fake Republican opposition. One of my favorite moments in your debate with that doctor a few months ago was when you shocked him by saying none of this would be justified even if a million people died. He expected you to argue within the play pin he created, and he was almost in disbelief when you stepped outside of it. The "no, I don't stop for stop signs" was pretty good, too.

    Masks are evil, of course, and should be viciously opposed, but not because of how much they do or do not block the virus. The minute we allow that to be the qualifier, they win because they can always shift the goal posts with a "better safe than sorry" justification.

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