COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 1849

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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #18481
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    Grantham, I'm okay with your post, except...

    Very few things in biology are 'settled'. However, many of us are uncomfortable communicating uncertainty with the public. People don't like uncertainty. They like answers. That leads us to state things that are not 'settled' as undeniable facts. Clearly, this has been a mistake. It has led to the reversal of advice on several key issues when other data became available, which contributed to the distrust people have in what we do.
    You think scientists were compelled to sign Daszak's letter because the public "wanted answers"? No, they prematurely shut down debate on an issue where the public was divided.

    Give me a single example of a scientist misstating COVID-19 research because the public demanded "answers" as opposed to uncertainty. The public complains primarily about overconfidence. When desired, scientific figures have had no qualms about spreading uncertainty. For example, Andrew Hill admitted to doing so, in a pivotal meta-analysis, because that aligned with his sponsor's interests. You seem unacquainted with the ways that public trust has been repeatedly breached - which is strange, since many examples have been posted here.

  2. #18482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    True, it wasn’t a PR win, but Hiroshima wasn’t a PR win for the US either, nor was Dresden a PR win for the allies.
    What consequences were suffered as a result of this bad PR though? And are they going to deter future events?
    You are contrasting the actions of federal law enforcement against American citizens with the actions taken in a declared war against the enemy. This is silly.

    If I have a central point, it would be that the presence of guns alone doesn’t put you that far ahead of Australia because wars are not won with Guns alone. It just presents another challenge to taking over. And like all static defenses that exist, they can be circumvented with time.
    You're right, guns alone don't win the war. But you guys voluntarily gave your guns to your government, effectively surrendering before the conflict started. We have not done that, nor will we.

    Assuming that the Police doing the actual seizing are told the history of the suspect and incident in question and not just shown a mugshot and told “this is todays bad guy”
    I’ve never been in a planning room for this type of thing but I would imagine that it leans towards the latter not the former. I think this because there is no benefit to the guys giving the orders for the door kickers to know too much about who they are arresting.
    They would probably prefer to know if they guys they are going to be arresting are armed, and what with.

    Also the ideal that “Cops would do the right thing” is a pretty common thought, but does it happen much in reality?
    One incentive for the cops to "do the right thing" in our society is their desire to go home tonight in one piece, instead of to the emergency room or the morgue. This is the reason we have the 2nd Amendment, but as I said earlier, it's hard to explain this to Europeans, including southern hemisphere Europeans.

    This is pretty far into speculation too, but one of the more interesting things I’ve read on the weirder parts of the internet is supposedly a summary of the governments contingency for something like this. What I remember most was that to get around this, was the geographical jumbling of forces. Soldiers from Montana would never be deployed for operations in Montana. They’d be arresting strangers in California and vice versa.
    This is true of the military, but not the Police, who live with us. In the US, the military is prevented from conducting police activities on US soil, by a statute passed in 1878 called the Posse Comitatus Act.

    Has America trended away from a constitutional republic in that time or remained true to its founding principles? Is that trend similar to Australia’s trajectory?
    We still have our guns, the significance of which is explained above.

    Just off the top of my head:
    - taxing firearms/ammo directly
    - regulating parts/ammo to make it more difficult to manufacture
    - allowing gun makers to be sued
    - increasing the difficulty of gun makers to operate with various methods of lawfare
    - increasing felony convictions for gun owners
    1. They already tax these things at the point of sale. Perhaps you're suggesting an annual tax, which we will not pay.
    2. That is already being done. But there are the previously mentioned 400,000,000 guns already in our possession, and lots of ammo.
    3. Can automakers be sued for car wrecks? You apparently don't realize how the courts would deal with this.
    4. See #2 above.
    5. Convictions for gun owners? As in ownership becomes illegal? Or do you mean increasing penalties for the illegal use of firearms in the commission of a felony? That's fine with us. It was our idea, in fact.


    I’ll stop posting about this now because it’s starting to derail the thread and I think we’ve all said what there is to say and you can have the last word since it’s your forum. There’s also so much covid shit going on to talk about and this is covering that up.
    And you haven't made a single defensible argument.

    But the mere presence of guns alone isn’t a magic bullet.
    Just like voting once every 4 years isn’t enough, merely owning guns isn’t enough.
    But the absence of guns is a much larger problem, one that we do not have.

    Quote Originally Posted by wal View Post
    So is Texas in the "nominally free" part of the Union as opposed to say CA? Or would you say Texas for the most part is a normally free state? Meaning the freedoms under the Constitution especially the 2nd amendment are given full expression under Texas law.
    I don't know what you're asking. Look up the definitions of "nominally" and "normally" and get those straight.

    Could FEMA override state laws and the constitution in a national emergency?
    Only if they want to get shot. You Southern Hemisphere Europeans just don't understand this. There are lots of us here that will not live as slaves. Seriously.

  3. #18483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    True, it wasnít a PR win, but Hiroshima wasnít a PR win for the US either
    It gets my approval. Hiroshima and Nagasaki allowed for me to even be born. Without those bombs compelling the Japanese surrender, I would not exist today.

  4. #18484
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    Deer Covid? Where I live the deer always stay at least 6 feet away from humans, at least as far as I know. Unless you're in a car or truck, then they seem to want to get more up close and personal.

    I'm guessing it will be difficult for the deer to mask up and sanitize, since they have no hands.

    Covid is rampant among deer, research shows

  5. #18485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    Of course I don't mean this as an insult towards patriotic, heritage American citizens themselves, but the reason Europe and the entire West is having such a hard time is because post-war Americanism, a kind of fucked up liberalism championed by the mercantile class, was exported around the world, and imported here. The American military elite over there, for example, is completely subservient to the mercantile elite. The entirety of Europe is ultimately made of vassel states to the US empire.

    It's pretty hard to hear Americans you admire blow raspberries at Europeans for being "weak". Gun ownership works great against overt, Hollywood-style tyrannies, but can't do shit about the WEF's economic revolutions planned for the next 20-30 years or demographic. Big capital controls the state.

    Wherever you live, the mercantile elite are in charge.

    The only chance for change is a multi-polar world arising where the US empire loses its hegemony.
    Thatíll be a bloody way for it to happen, but maybe the only way.

  6. #18486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    And you haven't made a single defensible argument.
    Ok that's fair, let me summarise in an argument:

    I put forward that the existence of 400 million guns in the USA, by themselves, does not, and has not, resulted in any appreciable difference in the freedoms of citizens in America, compared to Australia since 1997. In this instance I am using "freedoms" as a catch all term for the right of citizens to live free of government interference at a macro level.


    Both countries have governments that act with what amounts to unchallenged impunity. This is allowed by a lack of meaningful political opposition, a compliant and willing majority of the population, a sycophantic media and compliant medical/scientific establishment. The presence of guns is a deterrent that has effectively been sidestepped by the US government for 2 main reasons. 1 through the use of escalating force and diffusion of responsibility. "Look it's just a ticket it's not a big deal, if you want to dispute it I can't do anything about it, you have to go to the court house" Pulling out a gun as a threat is rarely and appropriate response to a blank faced bureaucrat quoting policy and procedure by a rational individual.

    Secondly guns, both at the individual level and the country level, are not a scaleable tool. They can be used passively, as a deterrent, or actively, to commit violence.

    Where they are used passively, such as in the Bundy standoff, they do not result in change beyond the individual level. Did the actions of Cliven Bundy stop the federal government from taking grazing fees, or change it's behaviour in any way? Passive use of guns, at best, results in conserving a small island, whether physical or ideological. Government cannot be constrained by specific scenarios such as this, it must be constrained conceptually. In this instance prevented from taking grazing fees or seizing private property in all instances. Aka the constitution and bill of rights.

    Using guns passively is a bluff.


    Using guns actively is opening Pandora's box.

    Civil wars in countries are historically some of the worst and most viscous wars. If you are using weapons to resist the government then you are a criminal, if enough people join you then it becomes a potential civil war. The only difference between an uprising like the Eureka stockade (happened in Australia) and a civil war is that the uprising isn't crushed. Like a parachute only having two options, using guns actively only has two options. You cannot shoot to wound, and you cannot us guns to resist the government without a civil war.

    Whilst America and Aus can't be compared perfectly, they are alike enough that they can be for this discussion. 70% similarity is good enough.

    Since 1997, both America and Australia have gone backwards in freedoms and weighed down by excessive laws at a similar rate. If there was a numerical metric that could be charted of this, the slope would look similar.


    I believe the best way to falsify this claim would be to identify a metric that somehow charts "freedom" or, more practically; point out a situation where America did not pursue the enacting of a law, or repealed a law of some kind due to the presence of firearms being used actively or passively.

    NB.I'm aware that gun lobbying organisations exist, I'm not trying to slip this under the radar past you. I didn't mention them because I felt that 3rd party organisations didn't fall under the umbrella of the physical presence of guns. However I can see an argument for how orgs like the NRA or the GOA could be included.

  7. #18487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    Ok that's fair, let me summarise in an argument:

    I put forward that the existence of 400 million guns in the USA, by themselves, does not, and has not, resulted in any appreciable difference in the freedoms of citizens in America, compared to Australia since 1997. In this instance I am using "freedoms" as a catch all term for the right of citizens to live free of government interference at a macro level.
    Except that in the US the government has not taken our guns, and cannot/will not do so.

  8. #18488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Charles View Post
    What people want to know is did COVID occur naturally or was it artificial? And, either way, was it a coincident, negligent, or intentional?
    I personally don't really care how it occurred. I care about the fact that my rights and freedoms were stolen!

  9. #18489
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkm5 View Post
    Deer Covid? Where I live the deer always stay at least 6 feet away from humans, at least as far as I know. Unless you're in a car or truck, then they seem to want to get more up close and personal.

    I'm guessing it will be difficult for the deer to mask up and sanitize, since they have no hands.

    Covid is rampant among deer, research shows
    Surprise surprise, an animal reservoir. I guess those damned irresponsible unvaxxed deer are also to blame for new variants appearing!

  10. #18490
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    I'm not convinced 2020 will be better than 2021, but if the potato thinks so, then maybe?

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