COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

[Nicholas Laureys]

You know what, I take back part of what I said.
It can't just be that (immigration), obviously boomers, the children of the Greatest generation, and Gen Xer's somehow fell short in passing along our strong cultural norms and values.
How did that happen? Was it perhaps because corporations selfishly sucked women into the workforce, and neither parent had the time or energy to pass along such values? Or is it simpler, more like that "good times breed weak men" saying?
Not sure what led to that critical aspect of childrearing being neglected, but it's quite obvious that not passing along our cultural norms and values led to such quackery as transgenderism, LGBTQ, free birth control, and other society-suiciding becoming normalized, debatable topics. Not sure how we get this cat back in the bag, but debating insanity on its merits won't get us there.

My apologies for what came out sounding like gibberish here. It was a combination of typing on a telephone and lack of time to concentrate fully on editing this all.

Essentially, for some reason some pretty basic cultural and societal tenets weren't passed along by our recent elder generations, as basic as the birds and the bees and men should protect women and children, and I'm wondering what lead to that oversight. But IMHO what isn't up for debate is that those missing life lessons led to grown adults who today seriously debate foolish topics such as [take your pick!].

[Barry Charles]

See above, the lack of understanding of post operative complications seems to be endemic of this board
?

What are the unusual post operative complications if the recipient gets a healthy kidney from an unvaccinated genetic relative that has tested negative for COVID?

[wal]

Sorry Mark looks like I have set the gym on fire again, however the folks are allowing their emotions to get in the way regarding this kidney transplant. If the parents of the boy are prepared to give a kidney then why not get the vaccination? Giving a kidney is far more hazardous than an injection. Why not suspend your religious beliefs for the sake of the child. If anyone had a dog surely they would take it to the vet to get the pavovirus shot to save the life of the dog. Surely a child overrides religious principles.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Why not suspend your religious beliefs for the sake of the child.

I don't know, wal. I don't have any religious principles, so the whole argument is silly to me. Apparently you don't have any that you wouldn't suspend either.

[mkm5]

So all of a sudden the masks are out again in seemingly 30-50% of people here way up north where people should know better. Same thing, driving alone in cars wearing a mask, in the grocery store wearing a mask. What a bunch of bitches they are. I find it extremely offensive and can only conclude that the majority of people in our country are idiots and we're fooked.

[Sainame]

,

What happens to the kid if he doesn't get the surgery? You're asking for sympathy for the wrong person here, and are not likely to get it.



Digging the hole deeper, Doctor.



Dig, dig, dig.



You appear to be suggesting that the kid and the surgeon are subject to equivalent risks. WE certainly understand post-op complications. If the kid gets infected and then septic from the surgery, which happens all the time, that's your fault, Doctor, and that of the staff who can't be bothered to wash their hands. You're saying that if the kid gives you a cold, that's just as bad????? You, sir, are a fool. Your only concern about the risks are those concerning you. And, of course, the money. When you bent the knee to the state to keep your license, even though you know -- or should know by now -- that the narrative is bullshit, you did that for the money.

There are lots of good doctors, many of whom post on this board. But shit like this has cost the industry its reputation and our good will. As you have seen. And be sure to read this, for further insight: Covid Vaccines Increase Risk of Heart-Related Deaths by Up to 50%, Lancet Analysis of Trial Data Finds – The Daily Sceptic

And don't tell us that the paper has not been reviewed yet, please.

You seem to not be understanding my point as you appear to be becoming quite emotional. Physicians/surgeons also have freedom to practice how they best see fit. You can't force a physician/surgeon to take on extra risks, even if you are agreeable to the risks. The father is more than welcome to find a doctor who is willing to take on these risks. I would have no problem if they were to find someone to perform the surgery. All I'm saying is that there probably aren't that many who would. If you are asking "what about the child?", perhaps you should ask the father the same question. Who is responsible for the child; the surgeon or his father?

Also, please read the actual study and not some synopsis from a right wing website. Did you look at the actual study? First, this study was not designed to answer that question. But look at the actual numbers. Each of the groups (combine Moderna/Pfizer group) and Placebo group had ~37K participants each. The total difference between the two groups number of cardiovascular deaths was 5 people (16 deaths for the vaccine & 11 for the placebo). Is this what you are getting worked up about?

About 60% of transplant centers do not require vaccination.



The vaccine is not immunogenic for half of organ transplant patients, even after 3 doses.



There are no “red line” requirements for transplant candidates, even pertaining to other vaccinations or lifestyle modifications. Everything is, and should be, evaluated in a multifactorial manner. It’s unfortunate that your brand of dogmatism is surfacing.

Good, then the family can seek treatment from the remaining 60% who would not require it according to your numbers. If someone wants to take on the risk so be it. Given that all the medical community cares about is money, as per Mark, certainly someone would be glad to get paid for this service. Also, yes, people who are immunosuppressed have a lower response to the vaccine. Let me first start with saying that the kid receiving the transplant is not the only concern. There is also the father. There is also a risk that he could have post operative complications after an "elective" surgery. The father might want to take the risk, but the physician also should not be forced to take the risk which I guess shouldn't be hard based on your initial statement about 60% of transplant centers not requiring vaccinations. Wasn't it the father who didn't want to get the vaccine? The father should want to do everything possible to reduce the likelihood of the child getting covid. Vaccines do reduce the liklihood of getting covid (although this is certainly not 0%). However, it is true that if you doo get covid even if you are vaccinated you can still transmit it just as easily. Just wanted to make that distinction.

[wal]

I don't know, wal. I don't have any religious principles, so the whole argument is silly to me. Apparently you don't have any that you wouldn't suspend either.

Yes you do, you just don't let it out in public, but it is not about you anyhow. If it is a silly argument why did you post that article from PJ Media? Was it was just to get a bite from folk like me just to keep the thread alive? No, I don't think so. You posted it because you thought what hospital would impose such a restriction on folk to get a vaccination so their child could get a transplant and it offended your sense of fair play, right? From my viewpoint I blame the parents for putting their child's health at at risk for a foolish religious conviction. Anyway if you had opened the link within it you would have found this,

"From these circumstances alone,
it should be clear to see that Dane’s decision to decline the COVID-19 vaccine comes from a place
of serious contemplation and concern regarding his sincere religious beliefs".

And this,

"Although he is
presently stable, Tanner’s kidney function continues to decline by the day. There is no question
that his condition could become life-threatening at any moment."

Of course it is silly, who in their right mind would put there kids' life at risk for a silly belief? Not you of course.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You seem to not be understanding my point as you appear to be becoming quite emotional. Physicians/surgeons also have freedom to practice how they best see fit. You can't force a physician/surgeon to take on extra risks, even if you are agreeable to the risks. The father is more than welcome to find a doctor who is willing to take on these risks. I would have no problem if they were to find someone to perform the surgery. All I'm saying is that there probably aren't that many who would. If you are asking "what about the child?", perhaps you should ask the father the same question. Who is responsible for the child; the surgeon or his father?

Also, please read the actual study and not some synopsis from a right wing website. Did you look at the actual study? First, this study was not designed to answer that question. But look at the actual numbers. Each of the groups (combine Moderna/Pfizer group) and Placebo group had ~37K participants each. The total difference between the two groups number of cardiovascular deaths was 5 people (16 deaths for the vaccine & 11 for the placebo). Is this what you are getting worked up about?

No, I don't understand. It's all over my head, because I'm not a Doctor.

"From these circumstances alone, it should be clear to see that Dane’s decision to decline the COVID-19 vaccine comes from a place of serious contemplation and concern regarding his sincere religious beliefs".

"Although he is presently stable, Tanner’s kidney function continues to decline by the day. There is no question that his condition could become life-threatening at any moment."

Of course it is silly, who in their right mind would put there kids' life at risk for a silly belief? Not you of course.

I'm going to remember you said this, wal.

[Sainame]

No, I don't understand. It's all over my head, because I'm not a Doctor.

Just answer this one question. Should a surgeon be forced to take on unnecessary risks for a surgery, simply because the patient requested it and decided not to comply with what he deemed as best practice?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Just answer this one question. Should a surgeon be forced to take on unnecessary risks for a surgery, simply because the patient requested it and decided not to comply with what he deemed as best practice?

I've already answered it, Doctor:

Let me try again to put this in terms you might understand. These people have no right to compel the labor of anybody, any more than the state or the state's proxy hospital has the right to compel them to take a vaccine. Show me where I have advocated for compulsion, as opposed to opposing compulsion. You are the victim of Confirmation Bias, Doctor. These people should doctor-shop, as I advise people to do every day, and if your buddies want to cover their asses, they should do so instead of helping the kid.