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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #20901
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    It's nice to have someone that isn't Wal with his particularly unique brand of queensland flavoured frustrating contrarianism.
    It is only frustrating to you because you live in the WA where you have been locked up for three years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Kalin View Post
    This is a father trying to give a kidney to his son. It’s not like the kidney could possibly go to anyone else.
    No he is not Steve, if you have read the PJ Media post and read the transplant letter you would have seen that even though he was prepared to give a kidney to his son he was not going to take the CV-19 vaccination because of religious convictions. You have got it arse about Steve. The hospital wants to perform the operation, but because this man is belligerent and wants to hang onto his "religious principles" he is prepared to sacrifice his son on the alter of stupidity. It is the same problem with the JW's who will not on religious principles take a blood transfusion.

    "There is no question
    that his condition could become life-threatening at any moment. From these circumstances alone,
    it should be clear to see that Dane’s decision to decline the COVID-19 vaccine comes from a place
    of serious contemplation and concern regarding his sincere religious beliefs, as well as the safety
    and efficacy of the vaccine, particularly for someone with robust natural immunity to the disease."

    https://www.icandecide.org/wp-conten...2022_01_13.pdf

    If the father is prepared to undergo an operation to a remove kidney which would bring a risk of infection and other complications why not get the vaccine? OK it may bring with it some side effects, but at least the kid's life is saved. Do you have to debate about the medical community's requirements for transplants which may be unfair and let the boy suffer?

  2. #20902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sainame View Post
    This has been explained several times now. Yes, the patient has the right to sign a waiver. The surgeon can accept that waiver and also the risk if he chooses. But then again the surgeon also has the right (personal freedom) to not take the risk. Get it? The surgeon should not be compelled to perform the surgery, even Mark appears to agree with this point. The father has several options as well. He can take what he perceives is a "risk" of the vaccine to have the surgery completed. He also has the option of waiting for another match for his son's renal transplant. He might not be required to get the vaccine in this scenario, as it is my understanding that the vaccine is required for "his" elective surgery (kidney donation) to reduce the risk of postoperative complications for "him". (i.e. he is at an increased risk of COVID related complications post kidney donation). The third option would be to find a "willing" surgeon who is willing to take on the increased risk without the vaccination. I have zero problems with any of these scenarios. My only problem is the expectation that the surgeon "must" perform the surgery at the demands of the father. He has a right to say "no" to the demands as it is his medical license on the line.
    You cannot be this stupid. Even most doctors are not this stupid, yet somehow you seem to be. NO ONE has advocated for coercing the fucking surgeon into doing any procedure against his will. You're getting on my nerves, and I'm not going to approve another post that blindly ignores all the previous responses. If that's all you've got, take it somewhere else.

  3. #20903
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    You cannot be this stupid. Even most doctors are not this stupid, yet somehow you seem to be. NO ONE has advocated for coercing the fucking surgeon into doing any procedure against his will. You're getting on my nerves, and I'm not going to approve another post that blindly ignores all the previous responses. If that's all you've got, take it somewhere else.
    I know this is not the point you are arguing. This is the point others are arguing. Read through the thread. I'm sorry but I am at a disadvantage of addressing the arguments made by several people, and not a single person. I have intentionally and quite clearly removed you from that specific argument. If you are not going to compel the surgeon to perform the surgery, what is even the argument? Perhaps you just don't agree with the medical community, and that's fine. But if the surgeon performing the surgery does, you still can't compel them to comply to your demands. That is the point. Maybe if there was a surgeon who stated that the hospital he worked for wasn't allowing him to practice medicine as they best see fit you would have some type of argument. Not is not the case that I have read. However, even if it was, according to the republican ideology that appears to be quite pervasive on this board, he would be free to practice at another hospital or go into self-practice.

    Your frustrations appear to be more rooted in the fact that you want to remain outraged over this situation because you are against any type of COVID restrictions in general. However, there is no logical argument you can create, as we mostly agree. You just don't want to accept that the person responsible for the boy not getting the transplant is his father, as it serves your interests to blame the response to covid. You care less about the boy than you do about your own dogmatism. This is exactly what I was referring to about your selective theatrical outrage. Post this, don't post this, I don't care.

  4. #20904
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sainame View Post
    Just answer this one question. Should a surgeon be forced to take on unnecessary risks for a surgery, simply because the patient requested it and decided not to comply with what he deemed as best practice?
    "Unnecessary risks" for the surgeon are all money related. Being sued, having his malpractice insurance go up, brought before the board, etc. Never mind I have NEVER seen a doc have to answer for the shit they did so I have great difficulty believing a med board is going to dish out consequences - but let's assume they would. All of these "risks" amount to nothing compared to a life. I would never for a second let those kinds of "risks" prevent me from at least trying to save a life. How is this surgeon such a shit person that they would? What kind of shit person makes a child suffer for the decisions of a parent?

    There is no way to be sure that even with a vax, if father or child got Covid there wouldn't be trouble. There could very well be serious issues even with it so why on earth would you stand in the way of an attempt to save the life on the basis of a maybe? If you are a decent person, you don't. You do the best you can so you can stand to look at yourself in the mirror.

    How fucked in the head do you have to be to sleep at night knowing you've used a child to pry its parent into compliance?

    Quote Originally Posted by wal View Post
    but because this man is belligerent
    To me, this right here is everything wrong with society. I don't care what sort of fucktastic beliefs you have, you have one life and every right to spend it standing for what matters to you. No one should be blackmailed into bending on things they deem important to their soul. Where's the line? How much of ourselves do we owe to institutions and bureaucracies that would sooner crush us than look at us? How many pieces of our soul must we sell to remain in the good graces of gatekeepers? Most of whom have neither our interest or well-being in mind when they decide the rules. And to have a spine, to take a stand is now to be considered being "belligerent"? That is some weak ass pussified bullshit right there that I did not expect to see here. I may think your beliefs are bat-shit insane but I would fight tooth and nail for your right to have them. Anything less is just- what's the point of you?

  5. #20905
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticausal View Post
    The problem is System Pigs, like yourself, who also happen to be doctors.
    "System Pig"? I often find that folk who cannot understand or tolerate other viewpoints resort to either insults or "language" because they have no answer, they threaten and all from the hidy hole of anonymity with a pseudo name behind a screen of death.

    Mr causal the only tangle is in your mind and you simply do not understand medical procedures. The father wants to give the kidney but because he is a JW, Christian Scientist, Mormon, or some other strange sect he will not budge and has put his own son in danger, that is nasty.

  6. #20906
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    Of what sect are you a member, wal?

  7. #20907
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    Quote Originally Posted by wal View Post
    If the father is prepared to undergo an operation to a remove kidney which would bring a risk of infection and other complications why not get the vaccine?
    Because he doesn't want to. That is the only reason that is needed.

  8. #20908
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenni View Post
    "Unnecessary risks" for the surgeon are all money related. Being sued, having his malpractice insurance go up, brought before the board, etc. Never mind I have NEVER seen a doc have to answer for the shit they did so I have great difficulty believing a med board is going to dish out consequences - but let's assume they would. All of these "risks" amount to nothing compared to a life. I would never for a second let those kinds of "risks" prevent me from at least trying to save a life. How is this surgeon such a shit person that they would? What kind of shit person makes a child suffer for the decisions of a parent?

    There is no way to be sure that even with a vax, if father or child got Covid there wouldn't be trouble. There could very well be serious issues even with it so why on earth would you stand in the way of an attempt to save the life on the basis of a maybe? If you are a decent person, you don't. You do the best you can so you can stand to look at yourself in the mirror.

    How fucked in the head do you have to be to sleep at night knowing you've used a child to pry its parent into compliance?
    They are not enforcing "compliance", they are enforcing what they deem to be best practice for reducing risks of the surgery. If you don't like how this medical group practices medicine, go somewhere else. Yes, the fears of the surgeon may be financially related, but the father doesn't get to place someone else's livelihood at risk. I laid out several options the family has, 2/3 of which do not require him to receive the vaccine. Wal is correct when he is disgusted by the actions of his father for the situation. There appear to be a lot of fake tears being shed on the behalf of this boy, but yet many people on here refuse to accept that the father bears the blame for placing his son's life at risk. And yes, I referred to your tears as fake because you seem far more interested in using this boy as a political prop to enforce your dogmatic beliefs regarding the vaccination. How fucked in the head are you?

  9. #20909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sainame View Post
    The surgeon should not be compelled to perform the surgery
    Beside the point. The surgeon who says he won't transplant a father's kidney for a dying son over the vaccine is a contemptible asshole. That's the whole point of this. How many of you doctors are contemptible assholes. You get it now, right?

  10. #20910
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Of what sect are you a member, wal?
    "Blood, sweat, and respect. The first two you gave and the last one I earnt." Got any more stupid questions Mark?

    Apologies to Dwayne.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenni View Post
    I may think your beliefs are bat-shit insane but I would fight tooth and nail for your right to have them.
    Yeah is that so. Would you fight say for the right for a child to live above the rights of the parents to have beliefs that would eventually take the life of their son? Would say lay down your life for your fellow soldier even if it meant your life is forfeit? Would say run into a burning building and save a trapped child about to be burnt to death knowing you may not come out alive, would you put your right to live above others? Life is full of "weak arsed pussified bullshit". Would you fight to the death?

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