COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 2175

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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #21741
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Laureys View Post
    You can have that one: Russians are authoritarian assholes who still don't even try to make amends for the horrors they commited under Stalin and the others.
    The way you prove my point is that there are myriad groups that "lost" in the past and now want restitution from the winners, just as you demonstrated by going after Stalin
    I am not sure what you mean by "going after Stalin" or this idea that Russians are authoritarian assholes? Do you not live in Russia? I am certainly not "going after" Stalin, or if I am, it is purely because I think he was far too lax with the westernized human filth that came to be known as the great "eastern" intellectuals, like Solzhenitzin.

  2. #21742
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Grantham View Post
    ...Many would jump at the chance to be the first one to show that the paradigm is wrong. Many would rather be right than wealthy....
    to answer a couple of other posts...Someone indicated that the VE against infection with the original virus was 60% but failed to provide a reference. If they're willing to point me to where it says that, I'm happy to look into it....
    That is bullshit.
    Scientists in academia are cowards; They will gladly sacrifice success for comfort.

    This is also bullshit; I provided you the reference and I will not do so again.

    __________________________________________________

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Laureys View Post
    You're right, Jovan; there IS nothing to apologize for....
    If White Americans were aware of their heritage, they would not apologize for their history, nor would they feel any guilt, whatsoever.

    If Black Americans knew of their white ancestry, they would not apologize for their grandfathers.

    If Hispanic Americans knew of their conquistador ancestors, they would be proud, not ashamed.

    Most Americans are completely unaware of their heritage and have been taught from youth to hate their fathers.

    A united people cannot be conquered; they must first be divided, bastardized and set against each other.

  3. #21743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Grantham View Post

    Is that direct enough Barry?
    Yes thank you. I think youíll find itís a better way to argue.

    History is full with bad technical and scientific reporting. It ranges from unconscious bias to outright fraud. People have become wealthy on intentionally false data and people have died. Those are facts. Terms like snake oil salesman didnít come out of fiction. I have personally witnessed it my entire career, closer to 40yrs. Your ďIíve never witnessed itĒ, seems naive at best.

  4. #21744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Charles View Post
    Your “I’ve never witnessed it”, seems naive at best.
    At best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I do not believe the data because the people providing the data are liars. This has been demonstrated so many times that we question your motives in sticking to your narrative.
    I don't get the impression that the man is stupid. He can read the same things we can, and he has to know that the data is shit -- he just doesn't care. At this point, I have decided that Professor Grantham is doing the Hear No Evil/See No Evil/Speak No Evil-thing to stay in the club at school. But that raises the obvious question: why does he continue to post here, when his motives are satisfied by merely not posting?

  5. #21745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I don't get the impression that the man is stupid. He can read the same things we can, and he has to know that the data is shit -- he just doesn't care. At this point, I have decided that Professor Grantham is doing the Hear No Evil/See No Evil/Speak No Evil-thing to stay in the club at school. But that raises the obvious question: why does he continue to post here, when his motives are satisfied by merely not posting?
    Because the people he debates here are stand-ins for the voices in his head that are telling him this is all wrong?

  6. #21746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Kaul View Post
    "Don't provide protection" versus "90% protection". Is it fair to say that your assessment of reality in May 2022 (or perhaps October 2021) is more pessimistic than the predictions of January 2021? Were the RBD mutations too challenging to predict?
    As far as tha vaccines go it IS fair to say that I am more pessimistic now than I was then. I didn't predict this rate of mutation. Coronaviruses proofread during replication and because of that I predicted a slower rate of antigenic drift. In addition, I don't think anyone predicted anything like the omicron lineage appearing out of left field like it did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Charles View Post
    Yes thank you. I think youíll find itís a better way to argue.

    History is full with bad technical and scientific reporting. It ranges from unconscious bias to outright fraud. People have become wealthy on intentionally false data and people have died. Those are facts. Terms like snake oil salesman didnít come out of fiction. I have personally witnessed it my entire career, closer to 40yrs. Your ďIíve never witnessed itĒ, seems naive at best.
    It's not that I think it can never happen. I've not seen it in the labs I've worked in. I take issue with blanket proclamations like 'they're liars' and 'academic scientists will gladly sacrifice success for comfort'. Assuming that just because there is money involved means that there can be no integrity is absurd. It's lazy and it doesn't allow for any way forward. It's no more useful than saying that all fitness industry professionals lie about the results of their clients so that they can get more clients. Does it happen? Sure. Does that mean that anyone who is a fitness professional is a LIAR? obviously not or we wouldn't be here.

    No population level data is perfect. I know that there are flaws in the data. However, my estimate of the error is different than many of the posters. I give less credence to some of the things posted form other sources than many of the posters here seem to do. I also am willing to take the data we have as a starting point because what is the alternative? No data?

    The real question is what do the real data look like? Are the data that we have an underestimate? an overestimate? by how much? Because of all of our biases...my likely over-willingness to believe the data as posted, and Rip et al's likely under-willingness to believe the data as posted...we may never see eye-to-eye, but I think we should still try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    But that raises the obvious question: why does he continue to post here...
    It's obviously because I love you Rip. I've had T shirts made.

  7. #21747
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    I actually agree with this for the most part. I also have worked in labs with the same funding sources. I have very high regard for research scientists pursuing knowledge for the sake of making a difference. I’ve been mentored by many great scientists who are, to this day, at the top of thier field.

    My personal belief is that 99.9% of researchers love their work and just want to discover important things.

    But…

    Having spent a decade+ in the drug discovery part of a major pharma, It ain’t researchers who are spinning this shit.

    Reminds me, I spoke to a good friend of mine, a former colleague who is a well-published immunologist at a pharma firm (her husband is an MD). They listened to the EUA meeting for the “vaccines” and were beside themselves that “less than 1%” of the meeting was about side effects.


    Anyway


    In olden days, the funding agencies (NIH) only funded based on the validity of proposals.

    Fauci was unanimously seen as a joke. He came on my radar when my eyes were opened in ‘88 while working with a scientist who was working in the early days of HIV. He was laughed at, mocked and hated by every researcher in our org. It was a dirty little secret.

    But you’re naive if you think researchers are not speaking up because they agree with the narrative. They don’t speak up because of the funding power he wields. I’ve heard this too often for it to be denied.

    In pharma, the marketers make the decisions.

  8. #21748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    But that raises the obvious question: why does he continue to post here, when his motives are satisfied by merely not posting?
    He is just jerking your chain. There is zero chance he believes all the stuff he is writing.

  9. #21749
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    Sir,

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Grantham View Post
    It's not that I think it can never happen. I've not seen it in the labs I've worked in.
    This story has been punctuated by many instances of bad data and bad science. There was the review article that concluded that HCQ was ineffective and dangerous, published in a hurry by The Lancet and found to be based on a lot (not a totality) of data that was just not there.

    The White House CoVid Task Force recommended mask mandates on the strength of a hair salon study with less than 150 clients, a third of which were not even followed properly (Scott Atlas MD relates this story in his book A Plague Upon Our House).

    A communication based on one single case (not followed properly either) suggested asymptomatic transmission was possible and important, and changed overnight the status of every man on earth from "healthy, until proven sick", to "Sick, unless testing negative".

    Doctors refused to see their patients.
    Doctors who proposed and offered treatment alternative to the prevailing guidelines were hunted down, hounded, threatened to be struck out. Dissenting voices were ridiculed, silenced, treated as lunatics and a-scientific. Even people like Luc Montagnier were shouted down and accused of senility.
    Having doubts was not possible; this is the antithesis of what the scientific method stands for.

    Most people can't debate the specific merits of most of the material related to CoVid; but everyone can recognise methodological errors as gross as those perpetrated during this story. I think an enormous damage was done to Science in general, and medicine in particular, by the way a part of the medical profession conducted itself. Whether this was by design, incompetence or other reasons, it's by now immaterial; the damage has been done, and mending it will take a very long time. And let me be clear; the fault lies on one side only, the one that was supposed to provide reasoned expertise, and didn't.

    I think, therefore, you can't really blame people on this board for not trusting what they are told, and thinking data is manipulated; there have been too many instances of bad science in this story, all of them, *crucially*, going in the same, one direction. Genuine errors should fall either side of the dividing line in a debate; when they all aggregate on one side, I think it's more than legitimate to suspect that something is crooked.

    It this correct? Probably not entirely. But, imho, you seem to fail to appreciate how badly your profession has behaved during the CoVid crisis in the eye of a lot of people, and how bit the effort is going to be to convince them; once bitten, twice shy, times one hundred in this case.

    IPB


    PS
    I can provide references to the articles I quoted, if needed. I didn't want to make the text denser than it already is.

  10. #21750
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    Sorry if this has already been discussed here....
    A few months ago when Omicron was just getting traction I was watching Fox business and Stuart Varney had a virologist guest on. I don't remember his name. Anyway, at the end of the interview he stated that the Omicron variant was clearly made in a lab, and probably in South Africa. I have not seen or heard this anywhere else, although if you google it you can find sites that say it may have been created in a lab.
    So Omicron doesn't really make you sick, but gives you immunity to the other more "dangerous" variants. So a "vaccine" that actually worked? Whoever created this deserves some recognition.

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