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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #2331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shea Frazier View Post
    Sweden has registered 18,926 coronavirus cases and 2,274 deaths among its population of 10.3 million people. Denmark has had 9,049 cases and 427 deaths in a population of 5.8 million, Norway 7,599 cases and 206 deaths among its 5.4 million people, and Finland 4,695 cases and 193 deaths in its population of 5.5 million."
    Population density and accounting methods are important variables.

  2. #2332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shea Frazier View Post
    I know that quite a few of you will discount this information based on the source, however the numbers were interesting to me. Seems that Sweden's response to the virus has been less effective (in preventing deaths attributed to Covid-19) than the responses of its Nordic neighbors. I'm glad that information like population density as well as the specific measures put in place were included. It makes things easier to discuss.

    Sweden says its coronavirus approach has worked. The numbers suggest a different story - CNN

    "The death rate in Sweden has now risen significantly higher than many other countries in Europe, reaching more than 22 per 100,000 people, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University, controlled for population.
    By contrast, Denmark has recorded just over seven deaths per 100,000 people, and both Norway and Finland less than four.

    Sweden has registered 18,926 coronavirus cases and 2,274 deaths among its population of 10.3 million people. Denmark has had 9,049 cases and 427 deaths in a population of 5.8 million, Norway 7,599 cases and 206 deaths among its 5.4 million people, and Finland 4,695 cases and 193 deaths in its population of 5.5 million."
    These numbers would be worth discussing if they came from a reliable source. You knew this as evidenced by your first sentence. If I made up some numbers and used SAS, R, or SPSS to justify them can we talk about those?

  3. #2333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shea Frazier View Post
    I know that quite a few of you will discount this information based on the source, however the numbers were interesting to me. Seems that Sweden's response to the virus has been less effective (in preventing deaths attributed to Covid-19) than the responses of its Nordic neighbors. I'm glad that information like population density as well as the specific measures put in place were included. It makes things easier to discuss.

    Sweden says its coronavirus approach has worked. The numbers suggest a different story - CNN

    "The death rate in Sweden has now risen significantly higher than many other countries in Europe, reaching more than 22 per 100,000 people, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University, controlled for population.
    By contrast, Denmark has recorded just over seven deaths per 100,000 people, and both Norway and Finland less than four.

    Sweden has registered 18,926 coronavirus cases and 2,274 deaths among its population of 10.3 million people. Denmark has had 9,049 cases and 427 deaths in a population of 5.8 million, Norway 7,599 cases and 206 deaths among its 5.4 million people, and Finland 4,695 cases and 193 deaths in its population of 5.5 million."
    So what happens when Sweden's Nordic neighbors come out from their bunkers?

    This article's premise seems illogical; or at least, the conclusion seems premature.

    We've been told, "lockdowns" are about "flattening the curve", not preventing total deaths. In order to avoid overwhelming ERs. Remember that?

    So to say that "Sweden's response to the virus has been less effective (in preventing deaths attributed to Covid-19)" is premature. TO DATE that may be true, but once the Nordic neighbor prairie dogs pop out of their hidey-holes, they are going to die anyway, right? Just on the long tail of the flattened curve?

    If that is actually the case, if we haven't simply been sold a load of BS with this whole curve-flattening theory, then what Sweden has actually done is to not completely crater its economy to arrive ultimately at the same place that its Nordic neighbors will arrive at once the dust clears.

  4. #2334
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKC View Post
    10 million Americans are already on dope.
    :-)

    I was referring to the new cases who have lost their job or will lose their job and turn to substance abuse.

    I haven’t seen from a single “pro-lockdown” person what the tipping point is in which the negative effects of a lockdown outweigh the supposed benefits. We just all blindly ran into a cave to hide from the scary lion. Problem is, the cave is filling with water and, at some point, we’ll all just drown. How high do we let the water get? That’s what I want to know.

  5. #2335

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shea Frazier View Post
    I know that quite a few of you will discount this information based on the source, however the numbers were interesting to me. Seems that Sweden's response to the virus has been less effective (in preventing deaths attributed to Covid-19) than the responses of its Nordic neighbors. I'm glad that information like population density as well as the specific measures put in place were included. It makes things easier to discuss.

    Sweden says its coronavirus approach has worked. The numbers suggest a different story - CNN

    "The death rate in Sweden has now risen significantly higher than many other countries in Europe, reaching more than 22 per 100,000 people, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University, controlled for population.
    By contrast, Denmark has recorded just over seven deaths per 100,000 people, and both Norway and Finland less than four.

    Sweden has registered 18,926 coronavirus cases and 2,274 deaths among its population of 10.3 million people. Denmark has had 9,049 cases and 427 deaths in a population of 5.8 million, Norway 7,599 cases and 206 deaths among its 5.4 million people, and Finland 4,695 cases and 193 deaths in its population of 5.5 million."
    I believe this was the intent. Sweden is accepting more cases and more deaths in the short term in exchange for a shortened timeline and achieving herd immunity more quickly. This is the theory underpinning the idea of hashtag-flatten-the-curve which assumes most people will be exposed to the virus eventually and the goal should be to not overstress the healthcare system. Sweden seems to be doing fine in that regard, although I feel like a lot of people have moved the goalposts from "don't exceed healthcare capacity" to "don't let anyone get infected."

  6. #2336
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    In the midst of all this darkness, there is a shining light in my very own city, Mayor Kafusi of Provo, Utah.

    On why she didn't issue a Stay at home order,

    "What we need now is sunshine over our heads. We need happiness. We need positivity. Jobs have been lost. Paychecks shrunk. Souls are being battered. Since the COVID shutdown, our valley has experienced a spike in suicides. Mental health issues are being exacerbated. So, shall I place on the shoulders of those already weighed down the cloak of a criminal order?"

    There are still those who resist the power of the ring.

    This is an incredible article:

    https://www.heraldextra.com/news/com...67d171d7e.html

  7. #2337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shea Frazier View Post
    I know that quite a few of you will discount this information based on the source, however the numbers were interesting to me. Seems that Sweden's response to the virus has been less effective (in preventing deaths attributed to Covid-19) than the responses of its Nordic neighbors. I'm glad that information like population density as well as the specific measures put in place were included. It makes things easier to discuss.

    Sweden says its coronavirus approach has worked. The numbers suggest a different story - CNN

    "The death rate in Sweden has now risen significantly higher than many other countries in Europe, reaching more than 22 per 100,000 people, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University, controlled for population.
    By contrast, Denmark has recorded just over seven deaths per 100,000 people, and both Norway and Finland less than four.

    Sweden has registered 18,926 coronavirus cases and 2,274 deaths among its population of 10.3 million people. Denmark has had 9,049 cases and 427 deaths in a population of 5.8 million, Norway 7,599 cases and 206 deaths among its 5.4 million people, and Finland 4,695 cases and 193 deaths in its population of 5.5 million."
    Yeah it's not doing great but as stated it has almost twice the population of the countries made in comparison with it. Also, Stockholm city has a high population density about 4,800 people per square kilometer, and has accounted for 1,287 of those registered as died with COVID 19. In fact, most Swedish cities have a much higher population density compared to it's northern European neighbors. Anyhow, whatever they say Sweden is still doing better than other "advanced" European countries such as Belgium, Spain, Italy, France, United Kingdom, Netherlands and Ireland per 100,000. I don't think anyone is saying Sweden is doing well out of this but it appears to be doing no better or worse than all European countries based on it's approach.

  8. #2338
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    Sweden purposefully chose a path of not destroying their economy versus a knee jerk reaction based on incomplete data. Your assumption is that Denmark, Finland and/or Norway will not have a resurgence when they remove the draconian shelter in place, don't go outside, don't work approach. My guess is the virus will continue to run through their populations and they will then do it under the strain of economic recession and heavy unemployment.

  9. #2339
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderFun View Post
    I really wonder if what finally kills the lockdown for good will be a rolling wave of civil disobedience.
    I see people driving down the street alone in the car with the windows rolled up and a mask on.

  10. #2340
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    Default Great question!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy Rich View Post
    NYC has had 11,000 Covid deaths.

    Tokyo, the World's largest and densest city, has had 93.

    NYC is locked down.

    Tokyo was never locked down.

    Both have had the virus for the same amount of time.

    Why is NYC's death rate 250 times higher than Tokyo's?
    I am not sure.....but I do believe that possibly....NYC has more unhealthy people overall...has worse air quality ...has major gaps in people accessing health care...

    And I understand that Japan made everyone wear a mask right away...

    They also have a more genetically homogenous population ( which can be good or bad depending on the pathogen)which could equate into a faster and more extensive herd immunity....

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