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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #28261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Schexnayder View Post
    Just like the idea that profit-seeking organizations would actually forego skill and competence for sex and race would be. But it makes for a nice narrative I suppose.
    When the right market forces are imposed by powerful enough market-makers with an agenda, if filling diversity quotas boosts their revenues, that is exactly what they will do. And it is what they do.

  2. #28262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Schexnayder View Post
    Just like the idea that profit-seeking organizations would actually forego skill and competence for sex and race would be. But it makes for a nice narrative I suppose.
    Ok I'll bite.

    If competence is equally distributed then selecting for that would result in a diverse workforce naturally.

  3. #28263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Schexnayder View Post
    I’m assuming here that by “diversity” you mean “diversity for diversity’s sake”. Equating diversity and incompetence would be pretty nonsensical. Just like the idea that profit-seeking organizations would actually forego skill and competence for sex and race would be. But it makes for a nice narrative I suppose.
    @satch @ Eric

    Diversity hiring is not a sacrifice for competence -- it is in ADDITION to hiring for competence.

  4. #28264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Is it actually your assertion that this is not happening?
    Obviously I am incapable of proving that it is not happening at all. But I think the extent that Subby's post suggests is ridiculous.

    Firstly, I have never actually observed this, at least not to the extent that it was evident that that individual was hired due to any race or sex/gender or orientation qualities. And I have seen incompetence across the board, regardless of any of those traits.

    Secondly, let's assume that it is happening. How many of these "diversity hires" are there, really? This plays into why defining the term is important. How many are so incompetent that their one-for-one replacement of the workforce results in the devastation of the production economy? And job requirements are job requirements; I've yet to see someone who just doesn't have a degree get a job that requires one.

    And lastly, I don't see what any of this has to do with the argument that people get more done when they cooperate, hence society is advantageous to the individual. My guess is that Jenni still does not agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan Dragisic
    To quote Satch, this is peak boomer.
    Seconded. Generational values change. I'm sure previous generations would disapprove of aspects of the boomers' lifestyles as well. Doesn't mean society is degrading.

  5. #28265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Schexnayder View Post
    Obviously I am incapable of proving that it is not happening at all. But I think the extent that Subby's post suggests is ridiculous.
    To be clear:
    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    Yes it does. And those things being produced are predicated on people having a certain level of competence. A level of competence that is being sacrificed for diversity.
    You don't think this is happening. Who is the Vice President of the United States? Do you drink Bud Light? How do you not see this pattern washing across western society? Are you yourself a Diversity Hire? Why do we even have a term for it if it's not happening all over the economy?

    Firstly, I have never actually observed this, at least not to the extent that it was evident that that individual was hired due to any race or sex/gender or orientation qualities. And I have seen incompetence across the board, regardless of any of those traits.
    If you have not observed this, you haven't been observing.

    Secondly, let's assume that it is happening. How many of these "diversity hires" are there, really? This plays into why defining the term is important. How many are so incompetent that their one-for-one replacement of the workforce results in the devastation of the production economy? And job requirements are job requirements; I've yet to see someone who just doesn't have a degree get a job that requires one.
    This is amazing. You actually think a Degree is hard to obtain in 2023?

    And lastly, I don't see what any of this has to do with the argument that people get more done when they cooperate, hence society is advantageous to the individual. My guess is that Jenni still does not agree.
    I'm sure she doesn't agree. Few of us do. What you mean is that People Get More Done When They OBEY.

    Seconded. Generational values change. I'm sure previous generations would disapprove of aspects of the boomers' lifestyles as well. Doesn't mean society is degrading.
    Again to be clear, you do not believe that society is degrading?

  6. #28266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    This is amazing. You actually think a Degree is hard to obtain in 2023?
    The same people that are scoring the diversity hire jobs are also getting easier access to college degrees for the same exact reasons.

  7. #28267
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnst_nhb View Post
    I am not suggesting that at all.

    Do you think there could be another explanation for why PE was added/marketed in these products on the heels of pseudoephedrine being relegated to locked cabinets?

    I am not going into the nuances of formulations, but if you think it would be unusual for “them” to throw an ingredient into a product without testing it, I’ve got some news for you.

    Hint: in the case of PE, the “tests” for efficacy are inconsequential to its addition to these products.

    Also, wait until you find out about some of the tests they DO do.
    I think a lot of what they do is arbitrary and designed to, in one way or another, enrich the pharma companies at our expense. These are the same people that claim that there is no efficacy for Anavar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Schexnayder View Post

    Firstly, I have never actually observed this
    I certainly have in a government institution (academia). The data are public. Go pull up Western Illinois University's student body dating back to the year 2000 if you want to get an interesting lesson on DEI. They hired Jack Thomas (first black university president at this institution in 2009). Just observe the demographics pre 2009 and post 2009. Another interesting data point is the enrollment numbers. They weren't positive but the Illinois machine ensures they stay in business.

    Now these aren't "hires" per se, but if you can find that data I am all but positive it mirrors what happened to the student body just based on observation and reports I've heard from people who are still in that area. Before you go and mention that this is a "government" and not "private" institution, these "private in name only" publicly traded slime tend to follow suit.

  8. #28268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Who is the Vice President of the United States?
    A nobody, tacked on to another, even-more nobody Presidential candidate, who won because the previous election was nothing more than a vote on whether or not you liked Trump, who cost his party the Presidency because he couldn't just keep his big fucking mouth shut.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Do you drink Bud Light?
    I drink water occasionally, if that's what you mean. *rim shot*

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    How do you not see this pattern washing across western society?
    I don't keep an eye on "Western society", as that's a pretty vast space. I observe what is actually going on around me. This served me and my family pretty well during the COVID hysteria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Are you yourself a Diversity Hire?
    White non-Hispanic heterosexual congenital cis-gendered male here. Does that count? Nobody has defined "diversity" yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Why do we even have a term for it if it's not happening[...]?
    By that logic, "climate change" is real.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    If you have not observed this, you haven't been observing.
    Smart ass comments aside, seriously, where should I observe? The mainstream media? The "alternative" media? Where, outside of my normal day-to-day and professional life, and the lives of friends, family, acquaintances, and colleagues can I find reliable observations that serve me?

    I will admit that "DEI" has always been a part of every company I've worked for. It's as harmless and non-intrusive in company operations now as it's ever been.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    This is amazing. You actually think a Degree is hard to obtain in 2023?
    A worthwhile one, yes. And that specific detail from my post is not the crux of my point. You think 10 years of experience in a field as a job requirement is easy to obtain? What about requirements other than just a degree, which typically applies only to new hires? Are all job requirements really being abandoned just because a candidate is "diverse"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I'm sure she doesn't agree. Few of us do. What you mean is that People Get More Done When They OBEY.
    Cooperation and obedience are not the same thing, which is why I didn't say "OBEY", and why it's not what I mean. You and Jenni are both stuck on the anarchy/totalitarian false dilemma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Again to be clear, you do not believe that society is degrading?
    Degrading? No. Changing? Yes. Degrade would imply an ideal, an optimum, one that we've been close to and are now drifting away from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderFun View Post
    The same people that are scoring the diversity hire jobs are also getting easier access to college degrees for the same exact reasons.
    H1Bs have been flooding the engineering ranks for 20+ years. If it isn't DEI, it's outright replacement for Americans, one way or the other.

    It's been my experience these "engineers" aren't even capable of replacing a burned out light bulb on their Toyotas or Hondas...

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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderFun View Post
    When the right market forces are imposed by powerful enough market-makers with an agenda, if filling diversity quotas boosts their revenues, that is exactly what they will do. And it is what they do.
    Enlighten me, seriously. Who are these market-makers, what is their agenda, and by what mechanism does the diversity quota boost their revenue? This is all very nebulous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    If competence is equally distributed then selecting for that would result in a diverse workforce naturally.
    Subby, give me a definition of "diverse". And then explain how you account for those groups' innate interest in a given specific field of work when reviewing your apparently very convincing data.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Charles View Post
    @satch @ Eric

    Diversity hiring is not a sacrifice for competence -- it is in ADDITION to hiring for competence.
    This makes sense.

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