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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #30101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    Ban any individual who has dual-citizenship, or who can attain it by birth-right, from holding a position of power at the state or federal level.
    I would go so far as to include counties and municipalities (and why not school boards and HOAs), but that seems perfectly fine for an idea. I don't think it solves the problems, but it's as good of a start as any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    If my message is boring and repetitive it's because the problem is equally tedious and tiresome.
    I mean, man... fair enough. The tiresome and tedious nature of all of this frequently gets to me, too. I can understand why you feel that way. I'm just saying that I think there's a better way for you (the proverbial you) to handle it in a more productive and less self-destructive way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    I will never understand how any patriotic American, who encompasses the values which America purports to stand for (justice, equity, fairness) can also support the actions of Israel.
    I don't understand how any patriotic American cares about what's happening in Israel beyond a general sadness and disappointment with human suffering caused by the whole thing. I'm not for or against either "side" over there, and I don't know if that was adequately described by me. I merely tried to point out how the actions and decisions of American politics post World War II could have given anyone who was on the receiving in of our "guaranteed safety" deals ample reason to not trust or like us. I don't agree with any of the crazy stuff that's gone down (i.e. Epstein's Island), but however abhorrent I find it to be... I can wrap my head around why they would do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Laureys View Post
    David this is baloney and as a policeman you probably were taught it through experience - the district you answer for is too big for you to police everyone, so you use profiling to help you efficiently expend your time to protect people from baddies.
    Similarly our world is too big to offer equal objectivity to everyone we encounter - stereotypes or painting broad-brushed pictures of 'governments, ethnic groups, or other coalesced powers' allow us to survive and thrive. Sorry, it may not be equitable, but that's just how the world is, and as Rip put it many times, fairness is a child's value.
    ...
    Actually, Nicholas, it's quite the opposite for me in my career. And I'll just take this time to reiterate how much people who haven't done the job don't understand everything it entails, and I'm not blaming them for it. I was probably as close to it as you could get beforehand because I had a lot of friends who were cops.

    I had no idea.

    So, relating the sum total of my personal lived experience with it is difficult. I get what you're saying, and to some extent you're right... just not very much. I can sure as hell profile a car for meth, and tell the difference with a great degree of surety between a meth-mobile, a poor worker's car, and a creeker's. But when it comes to all of that other stuff... it just doesn't work here. Granted I do NOT have to deal with anything remotely urban unless it rolls into town, but the demographics are just mixed up here. Sure, there's some small degree of racial tension, and the haves and have-nots. But I've seen the worst kinds of calls, and the worst from people, from literally every corner of town. I get treated about the same no matter who I deal with, and for the people who have deep issues it doesn't ever seem to ultimately boil down to something as superficial as race, country of origin, etc. Things like fatherless homes, drug addiction, etc. cause people to have far more in common, and skin color or religion has zero effect on the outcomes there.

    Quote Originally Posted by anticausal View Post
    You don't understand "it" because the "it" you don't understand is nothing but a caricature. It is a caricature that is constantly pushed because it very effectively hides looking at the reality of the situation. "They just don't like the Jews because they hate the 'other', and all their arguments flow from that hatred!" This is pure fucking horseshit. How would this explain my youthful philosemitism for example? I got a late start (it's a long story, but I dropped out of high school sophomore year), and I did not have a successful career until my late twenties. I was working a fast food job in my early twenties, and I didn't have a single negative thought about the Jews. Literally not one. I grew up in a "They are God's chosen people!" home and church. I was an antiracist conservative, with some concern about rampant illegal immigration (I wanted them to come legally!), but nothing more. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't I have been bitter at the Jews in my early failure, and forgotten all about them when I became successful? That is certainly the common trope. I feel like a fag getting personal like this, but people just don't fucking listen, and they assume whatever boilerplate reason Hollywood and the media injected into their brains as the explanation for those evil "antisemites". It's all just a bunch of fucking horseshit.
    No, AC. You're missing my point. I merely used Jews because it was the word of the day. I said, and I quite literally meant, ALL groups across ALL of human history. I will never discount the individual for a group. I will never discount ANY coalescence of power ANYWHERE to ultimately lead to corruption and evil. I'm trying to say if you (again, the proverbial you) don't take that into account you are sleeping on the larger issue, and you can also only truly know people on the individual level when they are 1) close to you for 2) a long period of time and 3) you spend a significant amount of time and energy investing into each other.

    So I'm saying do that instead. On whatever scale you can manage.

    -------------

    I don't often share about my own faith and beliefs on this board because Rip has asked me not to, and so out of respect I keep it to myself. I will do so here in a measured, and hopefully meaningful way, but won't be disappointed if this part is cut. Side note: I often struggle with this because I do believe deeply that what it means to truly share your faith isn't to talk about it... it's to do it. So forgive me if this all sounds odd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenni View Post
    This reflects a Buddhist-like lack of ego and ambition that I admire but can't claim. I don't talk much about religion because it seems to bring out the worst in people but I'm not Christian. My faith is centered in myself and my gods are there to witness and hopefully take pride in my accomplishments. (Though, I suspect they also have a wicked sense of humor.) I seek to make myself and my ancestors proud of who I am and if I've come close to that I sleep well. I don't hold a faith that just sits in my heart and whispers that it's all going to be ok. Sometimes I envy that in the Christians and Muslims. Buddhists too. I can visit that peace. Especially in nature. But I can't hold it. I see the bad and I want to burn it out. I walk down the street safely so I want others to be able to. I am strong so I show the weights to others. I have choices I want others to have. I want choices taken from us given back even and especially if others will choose different than I. Desire, anger, don't go well with faith, it seems.
    Decidedly not Buddhist, but Christ-like. I hope. I fail at that far more than I should, but such is also learning to forgive yourself your failings so that you can move forward. I think religion does exactly what you say, or has been at least as an effective vehicle for it over human history as anything else. I certainly think most modern understanding of exactly what "Christ-like" means misses the heart of it -- perhaps especially within the Church right now. My faith is carefully considered, and it doesn't whisper to me that all will be well. In fact, I have been explicitly promised the opposite. Suffering, death, loss... the whole package. My faith, carefully considered, calls me to hold onto it in the midst of all of that.

    My ego is not yet dead, but I wish it would die already so I don't have to wrestle it to the ground day after day. It should have died, though. It made a mess out of me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenni View Post
    Well, yeah! I want power over my life but not everyone else's. To me the problem is we have way too many people with no character and no inner strength. Someone in power with character and inner strength feels no threat and therefore no need to control others. What I feel is sad is to learn that that lack of character and inner strength is so pervasive. That weakness is like a cancer and it's metastasized into everything. I'm sad to find that out about my people, my country.

    I come from a war fighter background. Multiple branches of military service, husband a sniper, a cousin who was commander of the 10th Air Force, etc., etc. I had already taken the ASVAB before they found out about my asthma. (I was crushed but found other ways to help.) As goofy as it may sound to some, these ideas of freedom, holding the line for the safety of others, etc. are part of me and it is a deeply changing paradigm shift to undergo these realizations. The received information is sad. But I also recognize that never in my life has wisdom come alone. It always travels with sadness and maturity and sometimes loss. I don't break though so this too, I will turn into growth.
    I get it. "Eternity is in our hearts, and yet we will never have it in this life" is a very Ecclesiastes way of looking at things. I think we all struggle when we look at the world and know deep within ourselves "This SHOULD NOT be this way." And we're right. It shouldn't be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenni View Post
    I disagree. I don't think we're impotent at all. I think that's the problem. This forum is full of people with character and the inner strength to do the hard things and we struggle with where and when to apply that strength. Whatever you want to label it- revolution, insurrection, etc. is serious business. People get hurt, people die, things get nasty. No one who is truly capable and understands that wants to go there without just cause. We outnumber and outgun the other side and we know what that looks like and I think we're all searching for a way to keep this peaceful. That's where there's impotency, if at all. We seem unable to convince the other side that there is actually a line that if they cross it that changes. The problem is that while none of us want to see our children deal with civil conflict, keeping the peace seems to be costing them in a deeper, more meaningful way. We're allowing whole generations to be shaped by political greed and corruption. The ethics of fighting vs not fighting are becoming a Gordian knot. They forced the shots and we didn't take up arms and we have young folk dying. I honestly can't tell which sin was the bigger.

    I suspect that's the secret conversation going on in a lot of hearts right now and why you see some things happening in the media (like reports of a Trump win to come). More and more are coming to see that not fighting is the bigger sin and there's struggle with that. Struggle from the top to come up with something to keep us in line (H5N1 anyone?) and struggle from the bottom to not say the C word (civil war.) Those struggles wouldn't exist if we were truly impotent. You can roughly measure how powerful we are by what the top does to try to keep us in line. These efforts have been psychological and with the help of government bureaucracies whose agents are mostly nameless and faceless in an effort to not draw attention to easy targets. If they thought we were impotent jack booted thugs would have delivered your vaccine door to door during their precious lockdown. But they aren't impotent either and underneath the photoshopped Joe Rogan pictures and accusations of horsey paste consumption are people who consider you a resource. Like cattle. To be tagged and fed and drugged as appropriate to their will, their use. Unless everyone likes the sound of that this cold war is going to go hot at some point. So if you truly think we're impotent I'd suggest the best use of brain power is to help us get potent real fast.
    And I struggle with this, too. Certainly at times when I get angry. Where do I draw the line? For what it's worth, I'm trying to live my life out the way that I am because I don't think much of the worst can be avoided in any way at this point. I think a significant collapse and correction of reality is inevitable, and I think it brings terrible consequences that will touch everyone. But with faith comes hope, and a calling that transcends all of it. And I'm not about to attempt to share everything and convince others. That's not part of the job description.

    Just trying to do my part, where I actually can... a day at a time.

  2. #30102
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Rowe View Post
    I get it. "Eternity is in our hearts, and yet we will never have it in this life" is a very Ecclesiastes way of looking at things. I think we all struggle when we look at the world and know deep within ourselves "This SHOULD NOT be this way." And we're right. It shouldn't be.
    Please don't mangle Ecclesiastes as you and Jenni have already mangled Buddhism.

  3. #30103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    I will never understand how any patriotic American, who encompasses the values which America purports to stand for (justice, equity, fairness) can also support the actions of Israel.
    It depends where you draw the line. Like, yep, if you're going to look at Israel's founding.. They are the last grasp at colonization & influence by the UK.

    Judging it by that metric. USA is bad for killing the Indians. Australia bad for their treatment of the first peoples, New Zealand bad for taking NZ off the Maori. Israel? No different but we draw the line at where we perceived we became too enlightened for that sort of behavior. 75 years ago. Not okay. 200 years okay, we'll let it slide. And, while the timing plays a role in that distinction. The biggest factor seems to be the general acceptance of the native people. The Maori, despite their current misgivings are making the best of it. They're not butchering, torturing and raping their way through music festivals. Our government is not having to find a solution to 1000s of rocket attacks on NZ civilians. Whether or not their situation is moral is not affecting the native people's choices on how to rationally deal with it.

    Palestine is different. They are a people who have refused to accept the inevitable for 75 years. No other people in history have had this luxury. When faced with defeat - YOU SURRENDER. And you fucking well hope your enemy accepts this. Yet, despite having their asses handed to them for decades. Despite the only condition for Israel falling being the demise of the entire West & 100% out of their hands. Despite Israel being a nuclear power. They refuse to accept this reality. The only logical conclusion here is that they reject defeat so thoroughly; that they would prefer death over compromise.

    And, Israel, as a people who have dealt with that stance for 75 years now, are at the point of having no choice but to either accept their terms (letting them die as martyrs.) Or leaving their own children and grandchildren with the burden of a neighbour who won't stfu about their desire to rape them to death.

    Which is where, ignoring all thoughts of morality. Any notion of right of wrong. Simply looking at what is and what is not. Hamas become the biggest problem. Real leaders exist to benefit their people. Hamas exists to kill Jews. Real militaries exist to protect their people. Hamas - again only exists to kill Jews. So, while a rational army would surrender when they're no longer functioning to protect their civilians. Hamas would rather use them as fodder. Hiding beneath them, ignoring their plight because their goal is again: kill and rape jews. Similarly, the effective siege Israel has waged on Palestine. When your army exists to protect the people. Logistical checkmate & the threat of their starvation is cause for surrender. When, your only motive is killing Jews. Fuck it, we'll let the people starve. As far as Hamas is concerned, they are unaffected by the siege. As they're either outside the country. Or inside, stealing supplies off the 2 million civilians.

    Which again - creates the impossible situation. How do we get the hostages released? No worries, we'll stop food coming in until they release them! Oh! Turns out the minority holding the hostages don't give a shit if the rest of the people starve. They're a level of evil beyond any notion of civil or gentlemanly warfare. Who poison their children to believe and act the same before they've grown enough to see any rational alternative.

    Israel has dealt with this for nearly a century now. They've reached the point where they've entered, dark, impossible territory. When your enemy won't succumb to any rational thought process. Where their only option is to up the ante until they see sense. Except, despite whatever evils Israel throws at them, they refuse to do so. At a certain point Israel can no longer entertain their romantic notion of resistance. At a certain point they have nothing left but to do whatever is in their power to stop it. We are witnessing this end game.

  4. #30104
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    What Liberals Get Wrong About ‘White Rural Rage’ — Almost Everything

    “Rural whites, he said, are “the most racist, xenophobic, anti-immigrant, anti-gay geo-demographic group in the country.” He called them, “the most conspiracist group,” “anti-democratic,” “white nationalist and white Christian nationalists.” On top of that, rural whites are also “most likely to excuse or justify violence as an acceptable alternative to peaceful public discourse.”

  5. #30105
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    A lot this can be reduced down to Taxes. Accomplishments and failures would mean much more without a central piggy bank.

    One could also safeguard against this by having no debt, married, kids, and never relocating. What did White America do? Loaded up with debt, divorced, took the pill, and white flight. We have only ourselves to blame for this. It’s no wonder a group of people who have strong cultural bonds, supported by a major religion, unified by a language, with no piggy bank are now at the front door FORCING their way in.

  6. #30106
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    Occasionally, Politico publishes a good piece. This is one of them.

    But ruralness is not reducible to rage. And to say so is to overlook the nuanced ways in which rural Americans engage in politics. They are driven by a sense of place, community and often, a desire for recognition and respect. This, as I have recently argued in a new book, is the defining aspect of the rural-urban divide — a sense of shared fate among rural voters, what academics call a “politics of place,” that is expressed as a belief in self-reliance, rooted in local community and concerned that rural ways of living will soon be forced to disappear.

    In recent years, that rural political identity has morphed into resentment — a collective grievance against experts, bureaucrats, intellectuals and the political party that seeks to empower them, Democrats.

    Yes, such resentment is a real phenomenon in rural areas. But words matter; rage and resentment are not interchangeable terms. Rage implies irrationality, anger that is unjustified and out of proportion. You can’t talk to someone who is enraged. Resentment is rational, a reaction based on some sort of negative experience. You may not agree that someone has been treated unfairly, but there is room to empathize.
    Ignore the pictures. That part of the staff just can't cooperate.

  7. #30107
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    Western Honor is a particular set of social stigmas and taboos.

    We must remember that stigma and taboo are good things. And the perversion of these good and healthy things is an act of spiteful evil.

    They call us haters, but they always project. And I am convinced that the louder the protest, the more intense the projection. They hate you. They hate your culture. They hate your civilization.

    Perhaps it is envy.

    ---

    Above post inspired by John Musser's observation on the podcast that Boromir accepted the error of his ways and yielded to his duty to protect the Hobbits. "That's Western Civilization"

    What is your price?

    If your price is not your life, then you are for sale.
    This is something I came to viscerally understand during the vaccine mandates.

  8. #30108
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Rowe View Post
    I don't understand how any patriotic American cares about what's happening in Israel beyond a general sadness and disappointment with human suffering caused by the whole thing..
    1. Because the American taxpayer funds EVERYTHING that is happening in Israel.
    2. The powerful Israel lobby is trying to cram unconstitutional, anti-American, anti-free-speech laws down our throats on American soil.
    3. US boots are already on the ground in Israel, Gaza and Syria fighting and dying for this nonsense.
    4. The Israeli government has been threatening to send at least 2 million refugees to the United States that they have deemed "too dangerous" to live near Israel.

  9. #30109
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeyjones View Post
    It depends where you draw the line. Like, yep, if you're going to look at Israel's founding.. They are the last grasp at colonization & influence by the UK.
    Sorry, it was my fault for being unclear in my writing - and I should have emphasized "what it purports to stand for" when I spoke of American values. The whole idea of America, and what it stands for, has been completely, totally revised in the last 60 or so years, and it's now a different thing.

    I'm not at all interested in some kind of historical, ethical sweepstake about which group racked up the body count at the highest rate, or who fired the first shot, but I am talking about hypocrisy of the modern, Liberal person today (both on the left and conservative right of mainstream politics) who claims to stand for individualism this, and anti-group think, colour-blind that, but cannot or will not also apply the same standards to Israel today - which is a literal, self-described ethno-state/ethno-religious state embarking on either ethnic-cleansing.

    I get it. Sometimes you gotta do a little genocide (except when if you're a White straight male, of course).

    For me, my most reviled person is what I call the racist Liberal. He's the card-carrying conservative who says all the right things, and will brag about how doesn't like the Muslims (or whatever group the media-elite has convinced him is actually his existential enemy this week). And, in his daily life, maybe he rubs shoulders with some blacks at work or whatever, but he doesn't feel at home around them and doesn't live a colour-blind existence at all. His revealed preferences tell you all you need to know about him. He behaves as a tribal human animal, but loudly tells you he lives by this other Liberal, intelligent, morally superior code. The "I ain't no racist, but -" guy.

    The jig is up, though. The Noticings are happening on a daily basis now, and the kids aren't falling for this nonsense anymore. The yarmulke-wearing Libertarian, doing his "howdy fellow White Americans" routine, and telling you need to eschew group-think and embrace radical individualism, and why YOU should continue working beyond retirement to fund Israeli interests...

    It's wearing thin and it doesn't work on anyone except the most retarded, entrenched cuckservatives - of course there will still be some who actually believe Ben Shapiro, and giggle at the clips of him debating and "destroying" the arguments of... Libtard students on university campuses.

    I don't actually blame people like Ben Shapiro, as duplicitous as he is, because I respect someone who works for the benefit of their own in-group interests. It's human nature and to be expected and dealt with accordingly. I despise the cowardly, stupid White guy who buys this crap, and then signals to everyone about how superior he is - when he's worse than a pawn. A total whore and an unwitting traitor to his own people.

  10. #30110
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeyjones View Post
    Palestine is different. They are a people who have refused to accept the inevitable for 75 years. No other people in history have had this luxury. When faced with defeat - YOU SURRENDER. And you fucking well hope your enemy accepts this. Yet, despite having their asses handed to them for decades. Despite the only condition for Israel falling being the demise of the entire West & 100% out of their hands. Despite Israel being a nuclear power. They refuse to accept this reality. The only logical conclusion here is that they reject defeat so thoroughly; that they would prefer death over compromise.
    I was listening to what some describe as the greatest podcast on the internet before reading this - they were talking about great movies - so I couldn't help but think of this scene from Gladiator

    Something a little more constructive to the 'current events' thread - a book I'm part way through that appears to do a good job at explaining why our youth are so depressed and unhappy. And how the mental health industry might have a lot to do with it - Bad Therapy, Why The Kids Aren't Growing Up

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