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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #3261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    I made an interesting discovery this morning. I had to pick something up at a Walgreens and the sign said masks mandatory. So I decided to see HOW mandatory. Not mandatory at all as it happened, since no one challenged my lack of a mask. I have resolved to test the mettle of the gatekeepers from now on.
    It's always fascinating to see a "libertarian" ignore the right of a business to set the terms of *how* they do business.

  2. #3262
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    Gov. Pritzker: State parks to reopen, outdoor dining available May 29

    The big news for me: In Phase 3, "health clubs, gyms, and fitness studios can provide one-on-one personal training in indoor facilities" and outdoor fitness classes of up to ten people.

    This indoor facilities clause seems to me to be a new wrinkle. Heretofore I don't recall there being any provision for indoor training at all. But one on one indoors implies someone can train solo. No doubt with some provisions for before and after hygiene and maintaining a distance.

    The Illinois General Assembly was FINALLY called into special session by Pritzker this week. What follows are mostly based on my opinions and surmises.

    Ostensibly this special session limited to working on the hopeless budget, but I suspected his party was knuckling him to get back in line. Turns out this may well have been the case, because also earlier this week he declared that any "non-essential" business not following the lockdown would be subject to misdemeanor charges and a $2500 fine. This met with howls of protest from downstate. I'm not sure what the reception in Shitcago or Crook County was.

    Two days ago, the Illinois State Police issued a statement that they would not be arresting anyone for violating lockdown orders. This, despite Pritzker's threats and bullying to the contrary and failure of LE to implement those threats would result in withholding of Federal funds.

    As it happens, I learned yesterday that Illinois has a unique legislative committee called Joint Committee on Administrative Rules (JCAR). Amazingly, somehow the dems allowed it to be entirely balanced in terms of party affiliations from both houses of the General Assembly. The RUMINT reported by a downstate AssemblyCritter Patrick Windhorst this morning was that dems of JCAR had splintered and informed Pritzker they would not support his misdemeanor edict.

    So Pritzker appears to have caved a little. Possibly with more abdication to follow, we'll see. I am guessing that he realizes (finally!) that his high water mark was his interview Sunday before last on the news panel shows. Perhaps he recognizes that his political future is damaged at best and maybe even over after his first and only dip into the political water hole. One can only hope. Likewise, Illinois was surrounded by states that were loosening up faster than Illinois and many Illinoisans were vowing to shop and sit down to eat over the borders of Iowa, Wisconsin, Indiana, Kentucky, or Missouri.

    It remains to be seen what, if any, effect this will have on other dem governors like Whitmer. I have to believe that some of them are realizing that despite the overwhelming MSM support and fear mongering, they are holding a losing hand. More than ever I am convinced that the nature of dem state lockdowns and media scares were just another chapter in the overthrow of the guy who beat their darling, Lady Clinton.

    As I said much earlier in this thread, states like IL, CA, and NY were never going to get enough Electoral College or popular votes for Trump. I assumed that they collectively wanted to inflict enough pain and damage to the economy and by extension their own electorates to screw Trump. Even if by mail in ballots to assist as needed. They may be realizing that they could well have damaged their own political careers enough to limit or end them as well. Newsom is probably an exception. Because I find it hard to believe that anyone who voted for him didn't already know what a dick he was and still voted for him.

  3. #3263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillon Spencer View Post
    Makes impassioned appeal for unity against "them", whoever "they" may be.

    Immediately drives own wedge and impugns the motivations of an "opposing" group of voters.

    Maybe that wasn't your intent, but "trample on rural ways of life" makes it sound like you're ascribing intent. As an urban voter, albeit in a different country, I think I can speak for most of us when I assure you we don't go to the ballot box looking to screw over the country folk.

    I'm not looking to pick on you, and apologies in advance if it comes off that way. These two posts coming from the same person just seemed to highlight how difficult it is to navigate these many fault lines that are ripe for wedge driving. Everybody would love unity, as long as unity perfectly aligns with their personal philosophy, worldview, and needs. Heaven forbid they find some common ground with people that have different philosophies, worldviews, and needs.

    I just think a lot of the back and forth in this thread is coming from extremes, and that the best way to find unity is usually somewhere between the binaries you pointed to in the first post. I'm just going to pick an easy one, like self reliance vs. reliance on the government. I'm in Canada, and I'm cool with our government provided healthcare. I work for a small business, and certainly don't expect the government to provide me with everything I could ever possibly need. Which side am I on? Many on both sides conflate political beliefs with morality, and we've seen many examples of it in this very thread. Hell, somehow we've seen "pro lockdown" people be called both slaves and tyrants. Doesn't leave much room for common ground when people consider those who disagree with them over something as fuzzy as the role of government in society as literally evil, as we've seen a few times in this thread.

    I just think some of the rhetoric and "us vs. them" stuff is getting out of hand and is misdirected. I appreciate that you pointed out that "they" exist on both sides of the political spectrum, and I think that ultimately most of "us" live somewhere in the middle of it, or even on different sides depending on the issue. Let's just try not to forget that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    I can't speak for RKC's intent. But I can respond to your plea for "unity." As I already said, rural people prefer to be left alone. But urban voters in the US elect True Progressive Believers whose interests and passions and goals are inimical to many of the values rural people hold dear. At least in Illinois, the lockdown of churches has not been opposed by urban pastors and churches. But several rural pastors and congregants have attempted to bring suit or get restraining orders against the rule by executive edict that should have been done by the legislative branch.

    I'll take you at your word when you say YOU don't go to the ballot box to elect officials and representatives that intend to screw over rural people. But you do elect those who represent your own interests. Which often as not, come at the expense of rural life. After all, why should you have any interest in voting for someone who has concerns about hog or milk production distribution or infrastructure? That's just one example. People vote their interests. Elections have consequences.
    My only intent was to point out the wedges being driven between us on almost every front and, that I have no faith in that changing without a violent reboot.
    You both did a better job at articulating the difficulties of trying to navigate those issues. I understand nothing is black and white.

  4. #3264
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    It amazes me how both people a bureaucrats alike use the term “science” synonymously with epidemiology. The true numbers will never be known and if they were, would it really matter given the context? The truth is that we aren’t walking outside seeing dead bodies everywhere, hospitals are closing down, and the reality of the situation does not match what journalists are describing in the majority of places. They’ll argue that it’s because of lockdowns despite lack of hard proof. The truth is that lockdowns only worked to keep the most compliant indoors while those who called bullshit, didn’t care, or were just plain ignorant likely went about their lives and merely spent more time in other places (I.e. instead of going to bars and restaurants they went to Walmart, sporting good stores, gun ranges). Who is to say that those who stayed in would have likely done the same without the need for government imposed shut down. The most disappointing thing about all of this is how many collectively agree that they aren’t capable of taking care of themselves and common sense is inferior to corrupt “scientific” journalism. It’s important to remember this is when these same people yell “correlation is not causation” on a topic that suits their bias in the future.

  5. #3265
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrowdisciple View Post
    You have to be more specific about which "government," and which part of the government you're referring to. The national administration has not reported a true fact about the pandemic since they knew about it in at least December. The science agencies tried, but far-right politics has made the job of genuine scientists nearly impossible. It's fun, and kind of satisfying to rail at the "government!" but scattershot approaches to real problems usually leave a lot of holes, but don't hit much of the target.

    Close your eyes a national government in January, aware that a novel virus had started to spread, hadn't removed its epidemiologists from China, used the gene map published by the Chinese, worked with the WHO to implement a test, immediately began testing, tracing, and isolating everyone coming into the U.S., calmly informed the nation that certain temporary sacrifices would be necessary, but that they'd be supported financially, and personally, to protect each other and our health care system while we planned for the near, mid, an distant futures. Our economy would be affected until we had sufficient protective gear at least for health care workers, and we'd have a testing and tracing system to minimize reinfection when we reopened. Imagine we were told that our shared sacrifices, significant, though relatively minor in the overall scheme of things, were our commitment to one another as a nation, and that together we'd be stronger and more unified as a result.

    Then open your eyes, and compare it to what you see. And try to keep your fingers out of your throat.
    I see no piles of dead bodies, a "pandemic" hysteria whipped up by the media and fools such as yourself, and the worst economic and social catastrophe in history.

  6. #3266
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    [QUOTE=muntz;1773365][QUOTE=Mark Rippetoe;1773354]
    Quote Originally Posted by muntz View Post
    Still, I'm curious - do you think only the old and sick are at risk?
    actually. its not a luxury, but a requirement: both parents work, yet incomes are highly variable. in 2018 one of us (me) barely earned more than the nanny.

    i know 4 under 65. Seemed healthy. No idea of their blood pressure, whether they had GERD, etc.

    "Previously healthy" and "Seemingly healthy" are not the same metric.

  7. #3267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillon Spencer View Post
    I also disagree with your assertion that rural people just want to be left alone, but that's another story
    Disagree all you want, but in the U S of A, rural populations gave up trying to "fix" the sinful cities about the time Carl Sandburg wrote his poem "Chicago." Conversely, the urban enlightened electorate send people to the state capitals who impose statewide mandates on school curricula, bathroom usage, and minimum wages (set for urban costs of living). All the while ignoring the infrastructure improvements many rural people and communities need for internet connectivity and data rate speeds. Which makes some of those shining city on the hill utopian ideals damned hard to implement.

    But, carry on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    It's always fascinating to see a "libertarian" ignore the right of a business to set the terms of *how* they do business.
    Thanks for the snark. Please Sir, may I have another?

    I am a conservative, finding many libertarian takes and assertions about our nation and it's development and history mere fairy tales to tuck under their pillows. They keep insisting we return to the good old days of the US. The problem is, that the way they describe those good old days never happened the way their current ideological heroes say they did.

    If the business wants my patronage, they can accommodate me. If they won't, I will do business elsewhere and in the manner I wish.

    You clear on my position now?

  8. #3268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I see no piles of dead bodies, a "pandemic" hysteria whipped up by the media and fools such as yourself, and the worst economic and social catastrophe in history.
    Don't worry, a Second Wave (TM) is coming. Plus some mystery shit in children. Plus the stroke thing (remember that?), plus whatever else they cook up.

    Plenty of reasons to stay scared and locked inside your homes.

    By the way, you guys keep spelling science wrong. It's SCIENCE.

    SCIENCE is what determined that asymptomatic carriers will infect the rest of the world based on a study where they put some infected hamsters in a cage with a fan and found out that other hamsters got sick. I shit you not I didn't make that last line up.

  9. #3269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    Disagree all you want, but in the U S of A, rural populations gave up trying to "fix" the sinful cities about the time Carl Sandburg wrote his poem "Chicago." Conversely, the urban enlightened electorate send people to the state capitals who impose statewide mandates on school curricula, bathroom usage, and minimum wages (set for urban costs of living). All the while ignoring the infrastructure improvements many rural people and communities need for internet connectivity and data rate speeds. Which makes some of those shining city on the hill utopian ideals damned hard to implement.

    But, carry on.
    Yup all of those things are true! The flip side is that the rural enlightened electorate tend to support a party that seems obsessed with telling people who they can and can't marry, overturning Roe v. Wade, and locking people up for all eternity for a dime bag of weed. I'm just saying, neither party has a spotless record of just leaving people the fuck alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    I am a conservative, finding many libertarian takes and assertions about our nation and it's development and history mere fairy tales to tuck under their pillows. They keep insisting we return to the good old days of the US. The problem is, that the way they describe those good old days never happened the way their current ideological heroes say they did.
    Not directed at me, but here we very much agree! I mean, aside from where I don't consider myself a conservative. I definitely think that the fetishization of an imaginary bygone era is a big problem, and not unique to the U S of A.

  10. #3270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnsonville View Post
    I woke up Friday with my left knee and calf swollen to the size of a morbidly obese woman’s. My first visit to a doctor revealed it was bursitis. My second visit to a different doctor after my leg was covered with red blotches revealed it was badly infected bursitis. My third visit to an orthopedic doctor revealed that it is indeed badly infected and not responding well to antibiotics, and I may have blood clots in my calf as well. Due to this current pandemic I am unable to get a fucking ultrasound to find out if I have a blood clot, and unable to get the infection drained from my softball sized kneecap. How the fuck is Coronavirus more deadly to me than this current situation I am facing? This is the second time during this shit I’ve been turned away from medical care because all resources are diverted to the empty Coronavirus unit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Goddamn, Johnsonville, you'd better find an ER that will take you RIGHT NOW.
    This is not an "elective" test or treatment, get it done now. I live in a COVID hotspot and had an ultrasound done a couple days ago for a much less pressing issue. They were not busy. If you have to park yourself in the ER and wait all day to get it done, do it. Tell them you have a septic joint. Sometimes buzzwords help clear away the bureaucracy.

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