COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

[Mark E. Hurling]

Youtube humor: You must wear the ribbon

And there it is, to the chagrin of those who self identify as sheep. The wearing of a virtue signalling item. The red carpets of the entertainment award shows were once rife with such pins. Then it became wrist bands. Now it is masks.

Just the latest marketing device of progressives to show they are better than you because they wear something that shows they care.

Here's your bell, sheep wanna-be's. Or in the case of a couple of posters here, Judas goats.

[DanaWhicker]

I ain't your son, and I will accept your surrender, evidenced by your anger and frustration, and gladly move on. After reading your response I concluded that there will always be people who will look at a set of facts and conclude the exact opposite of what they would imply to a sensible, logical person. And that's even before they start distorting the facts, shading them, mischaracterizing them, and simply making them up. I'd like to continue thinking that your work on strength training outweighs what I read in your response about the federal government, but I probably should have told you that I could have written that for you long before you started, even before I asked you the questions. I've dealt professionally with many people who think as you do, and the convenience of their arguments is regardless of how outrageous they are, they can simply select facts to fit the argument. Libertarians do that to a fare-thee-well, and "sovereigns" take it to the stratosphere. Neither kind persuades very many people, however, since facts are pesky, stubborn things.

Son, Your use and apparent understanding of the word "facts" is one of the things that makes you look, as Rip pointed out, stupid. Another one is the way you write.

I forgot when I learned about paragraphs so I asked my wife, who is a 3rd grade teacher, when that subject is typically covered. She informed me that the word "paragraph" is introduced in 2nd grade and they actually teach how to write in paragraphs in 3rd grade. That is in gubmint schools in murica by the way. Your mileage may vary.

[Frank_B]

Thought I’d post this specifically because it comes from CNN.

CDC says 35% of coronavirus infections are asymptomatic - CNN

Basically, the CDC is now saying 35% of people don’t ever show symptoms and only 0.4% of those who get sick (not infected, but sick) will die from it.

The rest of the article is them trying to show that the CDC is wrong. There’s also some fluff about how NY somehow equals the rest of the United States and unless we hunker down for 47.6 more years, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are coming.

[Ads]

#23: COVID-19: ICU care, long-term effects and immunity with Dr Richard Breeze by What Does Good Look Like? • A podcast on AnchorDr Richard Breeze, an English ICU doctor, has some interesting things to say, if you have about 40 minutes to spare.

After serology testing indicated he had covid at one point, although asymptomatic, he decided to not wear PPE to continue challenging his immune system.

Others much smarter than me have speculated that seropositive people who didn't fall ill are effectively immune.

He also decided to resist putting patients on ventilators unless absolutely necessary.

[Kitsuma]

I think you’re missing at least one permutation of the argument that has been represented here: C19 is highly contagious and not generally deadly.

Yes, and

Permutation 2: any individual can avoid exposure to C19 by isolating themselves 100%.

This choice may require that individual to sacrifice his job, his home, his business, his savings and contact with family/friends. However, he will not catch C19, and he will eventually die of some other problem....possibly one caused by a vaccine meant to protect against this virus.

This choice may makes sense for some people. Instead, local governments have forced EVERY individual to make these sacrifices to the detriment of society.

Still, we have organized drones wearing Iota Ribbons (fake masks) in solidarity against our constitution and the will of the people. The fake masks are nothing more than RESIST symbols...Antifa-lite masks.

[UberBabs]

For your consideration:

There Is No Evidence Lockdowns Saved Lives. It Is Indisputable They Caused Great Harm – William M. Briggs

[muntz]

Well said, friend.

been trying to figure out the right way to say this. but...I just want someone to say. "So what if my behavior causes others to get sick and possibly die, I have other priorities."

I think you’re missing at least one permutation of the argument that has been represented here: C19 is highly contagious and not generally deadly.

fair enough. But if it WERE deadly, then doesn't it make sense to wear a mask?

I don't wear a mask when I go outside, because
1. I don't currently have the virus,
2. Masks don't work,
3. The virus is a mild infection for everybody except the frail elderly,
4. I'm not around the frail elderly anyway, and
5. If I were around the frail elderly with a viral respiratory infection of any type I'd be a sorry sack of shit. I am not a sorry sack of shit.



What a delicious day that will be!

You are absolutely NOT a sack of shit. I just disagree with you about the efficacy of masks and the deadliness of the virus. And I think a lot of the people in government have real, genuine concerns, like I do. Many, thought obviously not all are actually trying to figure out how to save people. But yes...there ARE plenty of shitsacks in government.....

Regarding us NYC tele-workers. All my wife does is have meetings. Frequently she has meetings to plan for the upcoming meetings. Occasionally she has meetings to go over the results of the previoius meeting. At least I've done some manual labor in my life so I'll be a little bit useful in a zombie apocalypse.

[Rob Waskis]

Really. I assume you could infer the following:
1) that masks reduce spread of the virus.
2) hamsters separated by partitions made of surgical masks resulted in less spread of the virus. (77% of hamsters with no partition became infected vs 17% with the partition did. This neither proved nor disproved anything. More study needs to be done for "proof." It did INDICATE that masks help reduce the spread.
3) That masks might be helpful to humans in reducing the spread. Here's the quote: “In our hamster experiment, it shows very clearly that if infected hamsters or humans – especially asymptomatic or symptomatic ones – put on masks, they actually protect other people. That’s the strongest result we showed here,”
4) People should wear masks.

So, pure, absolute, 1000000% proof is almost never available, but some things are indicative and this study is indicative. To be clear - i think it is an incredibly flawed study for reasons that are not relevant to this conversation.

The point is This. Is. Science. I think you know that.

1.) It starts to become problematic right here in step one. Is the hypothesis that masks reduce the spread of the virus, or that asymptomatic people are contagious?
2.) It gets more problematic in step two. Asymptomatic transmission and mask efficacy are confounders of each other.
3.) Worse and worse. All they can claim from their study is that they failed to disprove the null hypothesis that masks don't make a difference. That's it. Their only conclusion at this point should have been (and you seem to agree with this), "we should run more studies."
4.) The worst of the worst. This bullshit was translated to, "we should create an executive order forcing everyone to wear masks and have men with guns haul people away in handcuffs if they don't comply".

This is NOT science. It's SCIENCE! You cannot draw a practical conclusion from this nonsense. How did they determine the little rodents were asymptomatic? Did they give them a questionnaire? Why did they use a fan to circulate the air in the cages? What real world condition is that indicative of? Did they social distance the hamsters? Are hamsters in stacked cages even a good proxy for humans interacting normally? What about the time/exposure aspect? The fact that this study is, as you put it, "incredibly flawed" is VERY relevant to this conversation.

P.S. Please stop using the word "proof". I'm not using it, and it doesn't belong in this conversation. Failing to disprove something is not the same as proving something.

[Rob Waskis]

So, do you think the disease is highly contagious and deadly? If it isn't then masks and social distancing is idiotic. If it is highly contagious and deadly, wouldn't you want to try to help stop the spread?

I keep hearing people on this board making 2 arguments: It is NOT highly contagious and deadly AND there's lots of bad reasons to wear masks....

Terms like "highly contagious" and "deadly" are not useful unless they are put in context. The flu is highly contagious and deadly. So is Ebola. So is chickenpox. How hard I try to stop the spread depends on how contagious and how deadly.

Also, remember when masks didn't help, but you could wear one if it made you feel better?
Remember when they changed that to say you should wear a mask if you couldn't socially distance?
Remember when they changed that to say you had to wear a mask if you couldn't socially distance?
Remember when they changed that to say you had to wear a mask when you went shopping?
Remember when they changed that to say you had to wear a mask to use public transportation?
Remember when they changed that to say you had to wear a mask whenever you left your house?

[Matt James]

I don't agree with much of Rip's politics, nor in some cases, his assessment of the disease, but if you think that 35 million unemployed IN TWO MONTHS is not an catastrophe of unprecedented proportions, then I don't know what to tell you. And he's right, the response to this thing has been ass-backwards from day one. Arbitrarily deciding what businesses are essential vs non-essential (with zero consideration of the economic effects, or, frankly, the epidemiological effects); shutting down virtually all preventative and non-emergency medical care with no regard to how that plays out over the course of months; implementing lockdowns across the board without regard to whether something that makes sense in a dense urban center may make zero sense in a rural environment, etc. It's madness.

Keep in mind those unemployment numbers don't really capture small business owners, jobbers, and "gig workers" at all. The long-term destruction from this is going to last a lot longer than the disease.