COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 361

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  1. #3601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_B View Post
    I think it's the perception that when black men are killed by cops the cops are rarely found guilty. Obviously the perception exists. I am unsure, statistically, if that perception is accurate or not.
    How often are cops found guilty when they kill anybody? It's not just blacks.

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    ...briefly and tangentially?
    I have serious doubts as to the brevity and tangentiality of this latest foray, as the “virus” has suffered from a loss of fear luster and has significantly exceeded the attention span of the average media consumer...

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    Yeah, if they really stopped framing this as a racial issue it'd get sorted REAL fast. It's a police accountability issue. But maybe it's kept racial by design by the powers that be to keep it from being solved. Who even knows? We live under the umbrella of a web of lies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    How often are cops found guilty when they kill anybody? It's not just blacks.
    Completely agree. I’m just pointing out that a perception exists within the black community that white cops who kill black people are predominantly found not guilty. That perception is what needs to be addressed. How that’s done is really not something I know how to answer.

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    Maybe it's just me, but these riots seem to be further strengthening Trump. Because when disorder on this scale breaks out, much of the otherwise independent and perhaps even a little of those who dislike Trump would pick order over the current chaos. Especially after Trump dangled the Insurrection Act in the Rose Garden yesterday and negating posse comitatusby sending in active duty troops to backstop state National Guard units. This happened in 92 during Operation Urban Storm in LA when they sent up a few units of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children in Strykers. THAT ended things quickly.

  6. #3606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    How often are cops found guilty when they kill anybody? It's not just blacks.
    My observation from local cases is that the devil really IS in the details and the background of what led to the situation, not just the simple case portrayed by the media.

    In a local case an officer that are held up as a racist / bad cop was almost silently exonerated on the back page of the newspaper 2 years later after the trial found him innocent. Turns out when witnesses gave testimony and the camera's were reviewed the cop had cause to fear for his life.

    In Floyd's case it's more cut and dry, Chauvin was obviously abusing his power and using unnecessary force.

    What's confusing to me is you can't say "I can't breathe" if you can't breathe. I've been choked out, I can't talk. That said, I've never been almost choked out for a long time, so maybe that's what happened?

    The autopsy concluded: "The Hennepin County Medical Examiner concluded that Floyd died from a cardiac arrest while being restrained with "neck compression". Floyd complained he couldn't breathe while he was standing up. I googled around and I can't find a medical pathway whereby a neck compression causes cardiac arrest. I assume asphixiation?

    I guess what I'm wondering is, did Floyd simply have a heart attack from the stress / other factors and the officer's biggest mistake outside of their abuse of power was failing to recognize his health condition and fail to respond appropriately because Chauvin simply didn't care if he died?

  7. #3607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    No, that's always been obvious bullshit. It just stinks and pisses us off.
    But it's generally agred upon by smokers, which is what makes the fact that they would buck if anti-social restrictions were permanently placed upon them....to save just one life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Baker (KSC) View Post
    Yep, anyone who has served on the front lines of either of our recent wars knows "Derek Chauvin." That same guy makes his way into every Army and Marine Corps infantry unit around. The vast majority of guys join for fairly noble reasons - service to country, adventure, escape a dead end home life, etc. A small segment of the population joins because they'd really like to kill someone. Not in defense of the country, or democracy, or whatever.....but because they just wanna kill somebody. A few join for other reasons, but when presented with the opportunity to kill (and perhaps not have to answer any questions about it) - it's an magnetic pull they can't resist. It's a very small segment - but it exists. And it's a good reason to not use the military for police action. Since we know those guys are there.....the chances of unjustified murder in an overseas theater is about 100%. The "Derek Chauvin" in Iraq was the guy who'd put a bullet in a civilian sweeping his front porch with a broom and later claim "it looked like a rifle." Derek Chauvin in Iraq was the guy who'd light up a car full of civilians with a .50 cal at a vehicle check point, because the car "was acting suspicious". Ask me how I know. "Derek Chauvin the Marine", didn't waste the guy with the broom or the car full of civilians because they were Arabs. Or because they were Muslim. It wasn't in defense of his country, democracy, or even his buddies. He did it because he wanted to kill someone. The intoxicating power of authority is irresistable for many. And the highest level of the intoxicantion for the authoritarian is to take a life without consequence.

    His authoritarianism grows with his rank. Usually guys like this are not well liked or respected by those in their charge. As NCOs and Staff NCOs, these are the guys that are complete and unnecessary dickheads to the 18 year old PFCs in their unit. Not enforcing harsh punishments in the name of good order and discipline, but because they simply like being harsh dickheads to those that can't do anything about it. And worse....they like being seen doing so. I'm sure Derek Chauvin enjoyed the gasps and screams of those on the sidewalk that were horrified at what he was doing. It added to his intoxication.

    These people exist. They find their way into the military and police. You can't educate this out of them with racial sensitivity training. You can't train them out of this with better procedures. I'm guessing it was against MPD protocol to pin a guy down by the neck with your knee, while he's handcuffed and not resisting.

    You have to screen them out. And when they make their way in, you have to get them out. When they fuck up (on a small scale) you punish them....but you also get them out. These guys don't start with murder. They start with smacking the guys head into the door frame of the squad car when putting him into the back seat. Or tightening the cuffs a bit more than they need to be. It grows from there.

    If you are gonna educate, you educate other officers to look for this shit and report it.
    These guys, guys who are out for revenge against childhood bullies, and cowards (and you can be all three) are the problem with law enforcement. Even when there are policy issues, they rely on these guys to facilitate them. I have a decent history of LE friends and and acquaintances and the ones that are not like this will more often than not simply neglect, if not outright refuse to do things like kicking families out of parks or worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by ltomo View Post
    I can confirm this. When I was over in Asia I walked by Chinese kids on the playground calling each other "Japanese dog", listened to my Korean friends talk about how much he hated the Japanese, and read news articles about how the Japanese were snubbing their Korean immigrants.

    Three closely related people groups who all look very similar, but they've been fighting each other for hundreds of years. Throw the Vietnamese, Hmong, Laotians, Filipinos, etc into the mix and it becomes pretty obvious the concept of "race" as it's taught in the media is a gross over-simplification of what's actually going on.
    I always say that I wouldn't be able to physically do the job if I was hired (not that I'd take the job, but god forbid I leave out the disclaimer) to join any of the African genocides of my lifetime. I simply wouldn't know who to shoot. And I grew up in a very black neighborhood outside NYC and was the unofficial champion of the unofficial guess my ethnicity game we used to play in Abu Dhabi, which is 80% foreigners. To be fair: a large majority were either Pakistanis, Indians or Bangladeshis, but I'll bet 90% of the board couldn't sort them by sight. I could do it by region after the first year there.

    And the funny part is that in the many many times that I have been the lone grain of salt in the pepper (or cinnamon) shaker, I have regularly seen US blacks (and EVERY nonwhite in Abu Dhabi) sit around talking about each other and everyone else the way CNN likes to pretend US whites do about US blacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    But looting occurs in a wide variety of economic circumstances. The social frustration and, more importantly, the lack of respect for government created entirely by the government over the past 3 months set us up for this, and was entirely predictable, true. But looting appears to be a crime of opportunity, not unemployment. It has been going on for millennia, and there is one way to stop it: your rifle.
    One can simply look into the crime rates in the US during the great depression of the last century (don't want to confuse future readers that I'm talking about the one we will likely see in our not so far future). Everything I have read with sources says that, outside of the illegal liquor trade related stuff, crime didn't really increase. And many of those people were actually poor. Not I have a home, cell phone, free money coming in the mail every month, don't have to bother looking for a job poor, but water down the broth again poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by ltomo View Post
    I remember talking with my dad a few days after the lockdowns started. We both quickly came to the conclusion that if the economy didn't open back up in a hurry people would start rioting. If a couple simpletons like my dad and I could figure that out, Cuomo and Friends knew exactly what they were getting into. They weren't wrong or ignorant, they're just evil.
    How many of the rioters had jobs before the lockdown? How many rioter's financial situation IMPROVED during lockdown?

    The majority of people I see rioting are largely spoiled white commies and inner city hoodrats. The odds any of them have ever seen more than a minimum wage job is near nill in my experience....and their employer was likely being ripped off at that rate.

  8. #3608

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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderFun View Post
    Yeah, if they really stopped framing this as a racial issue it'd get sorted REAL fast. It's a police accountability issue. But maybe it's kept racial by design by the powers that be to keep it from being solved.
    This is more or less my read too. If the problem were identified as a policing issue it would be more specific and we might get some productive results. Laws could be passed to increase accountability and reassert the idea that the police (should) serve the policed. But that's messy and some people might have their ox gored so we go the easy route: the problem isn't just with the police, it's with systemic racism and the conscious or unconscious racial bias of literally every human on Earth. The result is we undergo this collective, religious self-flagellation and scream our sins in the public square while the diffusion of responsibility and the lack of a specific entity to blame or reform means nothing actually gets done. We feel better though. Except for those people who had their shops burned.

    I'll say, 2020 so far hasn't been a good advertising year for living in large cities. If the govt somehow allows you to run your business, rioters will burn it anyway. If the govt allows you to go outside, rioters will introduce a brick or two to your head.

  9. #3609
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_B View Post
    I think it's the perception that when black men are killed by cops the cops are rarely found guilty. Obviously the perception exists. I am unsure, statistically, if that perception is accurate or not.

    One of the problems with thug cops, in my opinion, are the police unions. I don't think a lot of people understand how hard it is to get rid of a shitty cop. About the best you can do to get him off the street is assign him to desk duty of some sort. Even then, you might face union issues.
    Frank B, I completely agree that police unions bear a lot of responsibility for the inability of police forces across the country to rid themselves of bad cops (having been a teamster in my youth while going to school I can attest to union's role in keeping useless people employed and the roadblocks that are but up to prevent their firing). Additionally it is not perception that cops are rarely found guilty of wrong doing in the case of killing a civilian, those are the facts, what may be hidden beneath the surface is the reason so few are found guilty may be attributable to the role the criminal plays in getting himself shot (i.e. not obeying the lawful orders of a police officer), I looked at recent numbers and out of 100 police shootings ~1 will be tried and convicted, ~3 will be charged, that may be attributable to the fact that the vast majority of police officers are good in the US and not scumbags, this is supported by the fact that when you compare crime rates within police officer community you find that the rates for police officers are at least an order of magnitude lower than the population as a whole. I wholly support very stiff penalties for police when they are found to be in the wrong, they need to be held to a tight standard and generally I think they are, unfortunately the media in our country are more than happy to highlight the bad eggs and are generally inclined to paint all officers with the broad brush, which I find despicable. What bothers me is the willingness of our press, politicians and "elite" to denigrate the entire population of police in this country when the vast majority are simply performing their jobs to the best of their ability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesandcars View Post
    The autopsy concluded: "The Hennepin County Medical Examiner concluded that Floyd died from a cardiac arrest while being restrained with "neck compression". Floyd complained he couldn't breathe while he was standing up. I googled around and I can't find a medical pathway whereby a neck compression causes cardiac arrest. I assume asphixiation?
    An individual with compromised cardiac function can certainly suffer a cardiac arrhythmia upon serious provocation, such as asphyxia, the stress of forcible immobilization, or panic from something akin to claustrophobia that might obviously occur if you're being crushed under the knee of a Piece of Shit who has no reason to fear you under the current circumstances and who you know to be a murderous Piece of Shit from having worked with him previously and who you might very reasonably assume is trying to kill you and you have no way to prevent it and the other Pieces of Shit standing around have demonstrated that they are going to do nothing to prevent the murder. Old people in very poor health frequently die upon waking up in the morning merely from the stress of awakening. It happens.

    Is anybody seriously postulating that Floyd would have died anyway had he not been mashed under the knee of this pussy Chauvin? And there is this, although it is from ABC News and therefore probably a baldfaced lie: Independent autopsy finds George Floyd died of homicide by asphyxia - ABC News

    And for the morons like lazyboy, Bruno, and Muntz who can't seem to see past the hospitals in NYC, this little item is indicative of what I've been trying to emphasize for 3 months: California Faces "Financial Collapse" As It Moves To Allow Businesses To Walk Away From Commercial Leases | Zero Hedge

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_B View Post
    Completely agree. I’m just pointing out that a perception exists within the black community that white cops who kill black people are predominantly found not guilty. That perception is what needs to be addressed. How that’s done is really not something I know how to answer.
    Instapundit >> Blog Archive >> HOW THE MEDIA CREATES NARRATIVES: Here is the Washington Post showing that blacks are shot to death …

    An interesting point:

    It would also be helpful, though not to the “narrative,” to compare the percentage of individuals shot by race/ethnicity to arrest rates for violent crime.

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