COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 546

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  1. #5451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haghstull View Post
    you're asking for an explanation of the 40 years comment?

    it was made offhand. 30 years is arguably more accurate.

    still, you could argue that this present era of political economy in the united states (you know, the one that is utterly impossible to reconcile with western values) began with the defeat of the air traffic controllers union in '81. The american labour movement, which epitomized everything good and noble about western culture/western moral philosophy, faded from relevance shortly afterwards. the results of this have been disastrous:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...00_Billion.png andhttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Epsilon-theory-ben-hunt-westworld-may-11-2017-graph-wealth-inequality.png (there is no one sole cause of this trend, obviously, but you will find that the dates match up)

    the anti-culture globalists found themselves more able than ever to prey on the United States, expertly dissolving the time-honored social bonds that saw american capitalism's worst impulses checked by a shared sense of national identity/community

    with most of our real values totally sidelined and authentic western individualism distorted into a ghoulish, debauched, "it's not only okay, but actually admirable to exploit your community for money" ethic, elites are empowered to undertake profit-making actions that the country would formerly have been capable of collectively objecting to on a moral level. The .1% owns most of the wealth, so they fund most of the state. Cuomo not feeling super-duper concerned about placing infected people in such a way that makes the state less expensive is possibly related to this fact.

    i suppose that in short, i think that the particular cuomo decision you highlighted is part-and-parcel to the same process of moral/civiliational decay that has led to the invasion of iraq. you follow me?
    I follow you. You don't like Capitalism, and you're one of these quasi-intellectuals who thinks that Capitalism always equals Big Corporations -- that Capitalism equals Globalism -- and who never seem to remember my gym and the little bars and restaurants and shops downtown, and all the franchise owners who feed people and train them and make them feel better in various ways, and the entrepreneurs who constituted the majority of the poor bastards in NYC who are now out of business because of people like you who feel perfectly capable of sitting in judgement over the entire economy, the parts of it that we assholes in business for ourselves were allowed to manage as we saw fit until recently. You lament the loss of Union Control of the West, not understanding that unions were not the embodiment of the West, but rather the entrepreneur who took risks and rewarded you with a decent sandwich at a fair price. The American "Labour" Movement devolved into "More Money, Less Work" quite some time ago, and the slack was taken up by entrepreneurs. You are quite satisfied that you grasp the whole picture, and that "globalists" and "labour" and "the West" and your British perspective has adequately accounted for all the variables in the most robust economy in the world, an economy in which you have no personal experience yet reserve the right to judge. Got it.

  2. #5452
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoGodsNoSpotters View Post
    1. What sense of spirituality is that? The Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Bottom Half of Your Own Face? Your spiritual cost literally doesn't matter.
    Is there some reason you are dissing on Mormons here? I think it is pretty obvious to many of us here "spiritual costs don't matter" to you. The 1st Amendment disagrees with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoGodsNoSpotters View Post
    We're talking about people losing their livelihoods and dying.

    [but...]

    If I'm on a date that's going well I'll def take the mask off at that point, but that is a much smaller, calculated instance of risk.
    To hell with YOUR spiritual risk, loss of livelihood, and dying. When BOOTY calls I really don't care if I catch it and spread it around!


    Quote Originally Posted by NoGodsNoSpotters View Post
    I'm making my own decisions.
    Pro tip--how about letting others do the same. Maybe the Mormons had at least this part right, "We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." That includes worshiping the mask gods.

  3. #5453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I follow you. You don't like Capitalism, and you're one of these quasi-intellectuals who thinks that Capitalism always equals Big Corporations -- that Capitalism equals Globalism -- and who never seem to remember my gym and the little bars and restaurants and shops downtown, and all the franchise owners who feed people and train them and make them feel better in various ways, and the entrepreneurs who constituted the majority of the poor bastards in NYC who are now out of business because of people like you who feel perfectly capable of sitting in judgement over the entire economy, the parts of it that we assholes in business for ourselves were allowed to manage as we saw fit until recently. You lament the loss of Union Control of the West, not understanding that unions were not the embodiment of the West, but rather the entrepreneur who took risks and rewarded you with a decent sandwich at a fair price. The American "Labour" Movement devolved into "More Money, Less Work" quite some time ago, and the slack was taken up by entrepreneurs. You are quite satisfied that you grasp the whole picture, and that "globalists" and "labour" and "the West" and your British perspective has adequately accounted for all the variables in the most robust economy in the world, an economy in which you have no personal experience yet reserve the right to judge. Got it.
    Masterful, Sir Rippetoe

  4. #5454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I follow you. You don't like Capitalism, and you're one of these quasi-intellectuals who thinks that Capitalism always equals Big Corporations -- that Capitalism equals Globalism -- and who never seem to remember my gym and the little bars and restaurants and shops downtown, and all the franchise owners who feed people and train them and make them feel better in various ways, and the entrepreneurs who constituted the majority of the poor bastards in NYC who are now out of business because of people like you who feel perfectly capable of sitting in judgement over the entire economy, the parts of it that we assholes in business for ourselves were allowed to manage as we saw fit until recently. You lament the loss of Union Control of the West, not understanding that unions were not the embodiment of the West, but rather the entrepreneur who took risks and rewarded you with a decent sandwich at a fair price. The American "Labour" Movement devolved into "More Money, Less Work" quite some time ago, and the slack was taken up by entrepreneurs. You are quite satisfied that you grasp the whole picture, and that "globalists" and "labour" and "the West" and your British perspective has adequately accounted for all the variables in the most robust economy in the world, an economy in which you have no personal experience yet reserve the right to judge. Got it.
    I am absolutely one of those quasi-intellectuals who thinks that capitalism always equals big corporations, yes. I also think that “capitalism leads to globalism” is a claim that is defensible on the basis of the historical record.

    I don’t object to small business ownership, and neither do most socialists. Did you already know this, or not?

    “More money, less work” is not a place the labor movement arrived at after a process of devolution; it was always the core thereof. I think the 8 hour day and the minimum wage are two of the greatest triumphs of western civilization. What a sentimental fool I must seem to you!

    You seem to think that entrepreneurialism is the most important part of western civilization. Let’s see what you think after another decade or two of decay. You may find that you were taking some things for granted.

    And if I may ask a couple questions: Would it be fair to say that you harbor a bit of contempt for working class America? What was it about Trump's 2016 message that resonated with you, then?

    also you seem to have me confused with another user. I have never participated in an economy other than the United States’. I am not british.

  5. #5455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haghstull View Post
    I am absolutely one of those quasi-intellectuals who thinks that capitalism always equals big corporations, yes. I also think that “capitalism leads to globalism” is a claim that is defensible on the basis of the historical record.
    I guess it's time to define Capitalism.

    I don’t object to small business ownership, and neither do most socialists. Did you already know this, or not?
    I know that you people define socialism as the common ownership of the means of production. That would seem to include my gym, if you regard me as a producer. If not, you don't understand "production."

    “More money, less work” is not a place the labor movement arrived at after a process of devolution; it was always the core thereof. I think the 8 hour day and the minimum wage are two of the greatest triumphs of western civilization. What a sentimental fool I must seem to you!
    No. You are merely a lazy bastard, like most other people. Or perhaps you're a Frenchman?

    You seem to think that entrepreneurialism is the most important part of western civilization. Let’s see what you think after another decade or two of decay. You may find that you were taking some things for granted.
    You may find that you were missing some important things, like Microsoft, Amazon, and Facebook, all of which had their start as entrepreneurialism and who subsequently succumbed to the allure of power.

    And if I may ask a couple questions: Would it be fair to say that you harbor a bit of contempt for working class America?
    Absolutely not. Do you think me a millionaire, sir? Born to money? My family operated a very small cafe, but a damned good one. The hours were long, and if daddy didn't get up and go to work, lots of people didn't eat, unlike your union boys. How about yours?

    What was it about Trump's 2016 message that resonated with you, then?
    Nothing. I voted against Hillary, not for Trump. But I'll be voting for him this time, because he's done more for "working class Americans" -- the kind of people who do business with us, than any president in history. His failure recently has been trust in the wrong people, and a failure to follow his gut the past 5 months.

    also you seem to have me confused with another user. I have never participated in an economy other than the United States’. I am not british.
    Must have been your spelling. Please accept my most sincere apologies, and the Frenchman confusion.

  6. #5456
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    Quote Originally Posted by ltomo View Post
    I can't comment on the rest of the US, but here in the region of Columbus, OH it seems like there's a big city/country divide in how much people obey the orders. I've been driving an extra 30 minutes to go to a small town for whatever shopping I need to do and nobody there wears a mask, whereas in my suburb I've gotten glares for filling my car up with gas without wearing a mask.

    I do appreciate the ways businesses are finding to skirt the rules though. The other day our Fearless and Brave Governor DeWine mandated that all bars have to stop serving drinks at 10. Some bars are now selling entire bottles of wine and ice buckets filled with beer bottles starting at 9 so patrons can stock up and keep partying until normal bar close.
    I'm pretty convinced that if you find yourself in a community where the majority of people are working in the manufacturing industry, construction, agriculture, basic services, are self-employed and so on, nobody will care about the pandemic. If you find yourself somewhere where most people work made up jobs like online sales/marketing, finance and so on, those poor bastards are still in the middle of the end of times. So, the divide is not necessarily country-big city, but like, whether the place is mostly inhabited by the workers or the bourgeoisie, to quote America's favourite economist.

  7. #5457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Nothing. I voted against Hillary, not for Trump. But I'll be voting for him this time, because he's done more for "working class Americans" -- the kind of people who do business with us, than any president in history.
    Genuine question from someone who only vaguely follows US politics: what specific things has Trump done that you approve of?

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  9. #5459
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoGodsNoSpotters View Post

    4. This has nothing to do with the government telling me to do this, I simply believe it's the smarter move given the circumstances. Refusing to wear masks because the government told you to do it is just as stupid as wearing a mask because the government told you to do. I don't need to involve the government's recommendation at all to come to my own conclusions. I do not care about ideology in this issue, I care about the tangible effects this will have on peoples' lives.

    I am having this discussion because I see a lot of people lumping masks in with the rest of the government's inconsistent response, and using it as a political symbol in response to this. This is misguided, and will lead to yet more inconsistency in the public response to the issue, which as we've already seen, leads to the worst of both worlds in results. I have a vested interest in trying to get people to agree with my view on this, because the results of their compounded actions will ultimately have an effect on me.
    While you are making reasonable statements, there is burden that comes with it.

    Simply, if Covid as we know it warrants the reponse as we know it, what future situations do not? 1/2 COVID? 90% COVID? 0.1 COVID?

    If the answer is that it depends or that it is always better safe than sorry, we have lost the ability to function.

    Asking for rational thresholds in risk acceptance is not a new and wierd burden. The insurance companies have been doing this forever. So with respect to your reasoning can you define the situation where not wearing a mask is warranted?

    If you canít, your arguments are arbitrary.

  10. #5460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haghstull View Post
    I think the 8 hour day and the minimum wage are two of the greatest triumphs of western civilization. What a sentimental fool I must seem to you!
    A sentimental fool indeed. You are fine with people losing their jobs, as long as you can feel a little better about yourself.

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