COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 621

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  1. #6201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Why would I agree to that? Where is your evidence? How much higher? I don't think you understand the depth of the damage done to the economy and to the society in which it operates.
    Lockdowns, quasi-lockdowns, etc. could have only alleviated the rate of spread, no one can deny that.
    Sure, one COULD say in the end, the same total amount of people are going to get infected sooner or later.
    But no doubt the soft-lockdowns, distancing, limiting travel, and canning large crowds (sports events, concerts, school, etc) would stretch out the spread over a longer amount of time.

    And apparently some places did get their medical capacity over run a bit.
    And even if you don't believe that, say if the line was toed or whatever, I'm sure your quality of care goes down a bit as facilities near max-capacity as opposed to being say 70-80% full.

    Treatments evolved over this period also, so time was bought for those people who benefited from that in other parts of the country (post NY).
    Example: ventilators were over-used and/or mis--used; you never even hear a peep about ventilators anymore.
    Plasma with antibodies can be collected and distributed, etc. Some medicines got approved and put into use (some didn't).
    It appears the CFR is getting lower most everywhere with time.

    Imagine if California, Texas, Florida all had the same rise in their curves at the same time frame as NY / NE USA.
    Sure NYC's curve would be steeper than say Texas because of population density.
    But had all those metropolises started curving upward closer to the same time due to the whole populous still traveling and interacting, it would have been much worse.
    The sharp rise in cases of many other states didn't occur until later, because the rest of America got scared because of what happened in NYC, Conn, NJ, etc.

    And even if you don't believe the "bullshit" above about treatments evolving, med.capacity being overrun or tasked, etc....
    ...then from the Fear Porn perspective, imagine if all those different metro area's infection curves went up at the simultaneously, overlapped closer, or closer in succession. Oh man, it would've been utter pandemonium, fright, shock, and awe.
    Chris Cuomo would have donned a yellow toxic hazmat suit for the evening news broadcast.
    THEN the economy would've just taken the hit at that point, maybe even worse so.

    I could even see some of the people who seem to have behaved/governed more reasonably with our current ongoing scenario,
    buckle and fold if the case I outlined above paragraph would have come to pass.

  2. #6202
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    But, Fulcrum, we most definitely know that countries that locked down heavily did not do better or did significantly worse than those that locked down less or not at all.

    The argument may make intuitive sense, but in fact did not bear out in the real world at all.

  3. #6203
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    Fulcrum, now that you’ve hypothesized about scenarios that have not happened, scroll the thread and see who was actually correct about IFR, death count (even assuming tight lockdowns), Sweden’s policies, the economy, and how long politicians would hold their emergency powers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
    ventilators were over-used and/or mis--used; you never even hear a peep about ventilators anymore.
    Internet schmucks were right about those, too. (I wasn’t). This is the extent to which Experts have thoroughly embarrassed themselves - unexpectedly, on technical matters in their domain, not to mention their ruminations on economics, statistics, fluid dynamics, etc.

    Plasma with antibodies can be collected and distributed, etc.
    Not if Fauci and co. had their way.

  4. #6204
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Rowe View Post
    The first charge is in. Oregon’s U.S. Attorney pursues first federal charges of civil disorder for alleged violence at Portland protests - oregonlive.com

    They're back-charging people:

    The Oregon U.S. Attorney’s Office is reviewing other violent actions from the last three months of protests and is expected to pursue similar civil disorder prosecutions.
    Suddenly idiots who thought they got away with it since state prosecutors and judges are corrupt are going to find themselves in federal PMITA prison.

    Of course the media is against this:

    Jonathan H. Adler, a law professor at the Case Western Reserve University School of Law, wrote for Reason Magazine this summer, that destruction of property and violence against others “should be prosecuted by state and local governments, not the feds.”
    They aren't being prosecuted so what other options are here? A continued catch and release program? It's been 3 months of this. Personally I'd prefer live fire, but this will do for now.

    Read this statement by Sheriff Clarke of Clackamas County, throwing the Governor under the bus for the lack of prosecutions: https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...01025808666625

  5. #6205
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForbiddenDonut View Post
    ...
    If you have been paying any attention to what Owen Benjamin has been doing to Patreon and what Vox Day did to Indiegogo, you would realize that you could not be more wrong about your second paragraph. It WOULD be the correct move to fight. A man with hundreds of millions more at his disposal than Owen and Vox, and way more power than them could have wreaked total havoc. Instead, he cowered and let the leftists win. Who cares if it gives more 'character assassination ammo'? His submission and admission they were right gave them the whole weapon...
    I am sure you have been doing something. I am equally upset with many of these apologies and understand exactly where you are coming from.

    However, he is a powerful man who can influence the situation in 1,000 different ways, both seen and unseen. Whatever he does, you should never know it was him if he does it correctly.
    Why has Soros been effective at controlling societies and overthrowing governments he dislikes? Is it because he openly urges for rebellion against all western nations? No. He is effective, because he can maintain a veil of neutrality while controlling politicians, funding propaganda and organizing supporters of his causes.

    A small step is much better than no step. It can lead to more steps. He is a powerful man and even if he doesn't say it publicly, they have made an enemy of him.

  6. #6206
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    These riots literally couldn't have come at a better time for Trump's campaign. Just his re-election alone, which would undoubtedly be rejected by the left, might spark civil unrest on a scale never seen before in the US. In turn, that would make Trump's base more politically activated than ever before. We just got a glimpse of that in Portland. Out of everything we've seen since June, the footage of Trump supporters storming through Portland, and their support for Kyle Rittenhouse, has really had an impact on me and it's more significant than I first realized.

    When Trump wins with a "LAW & ORDER!!!1" ticket, mimicking Nixon's second term, I can only see contradictions worsening and existing tensions being exacerbated further over the next 4 years. Even if these particular riots do eventually subside, it feels like a Trump win might be the lever that could potentially explode the status quo forever. He's not my guy by any means. He is just an establishment Republican and I think he has cucked, compared to his campaign promises, since day 1, but the left's image of Trump is enough. Just imagine what the reaction from BLM will be like when (as seems likely) Chauvin and Rittenhouse avoid jail with Trump as a president... multiply that by 4 more years.

  7. #6207
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    Thanks Rip for introducing me (and others I'm sure) to Ivor Cummins back in June. He's fast become my go-to source to wade through all of the COVID bullshit.

    Check out his latest chat with Steve Katasi on the AdapNation podcast: #143: Reflections on COVID Mania ~Ivor Cummins | AdapNation

    Be sure to also follow some of the links posted in the show notes, in particular this gem - Ivor’s Corona Mismanagement Letter, a scientific manifesto to send to business and political leaders: Corona Basic Realities Letter - to send to Politicians, Journalists, Business Leaders etc. — The Fat Emperor

  8. #6208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I hate the media more than any other entity in existence.
    Then you’ll love Jeremy R. Hammond’s four-part series on the New York Times:

    How the New York Times Lies about SARS-CoV-2 Transmission

  9. #6209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan Dragisic View Post
    Forget it, it’s just a new persona for one of your trolls. Amusingly, you do seem to have a bunch of those.
    I gotta admit, they’ve been amusing though!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Schexnayder View Post
    Imagine if Hillary had won and taken all the same actions / inactions and ended up with the same results from COVID. She'd be a hero and "the numbers" would have been the best case scenario or some other BS.
    It’s incredible that otherwise intelligent people can’t think in 360. It is astounding. As an anecdote, I asked where she got all her info, the answer was CNN. Color me shocked.

  10. #6210
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    That's my whole point. I don't have any evidence, but neither do you of the opposite and thus you cannot use the 10% increase in deaths as a reference point. We can only guess. But I assumed that you would agree that the numbers, although unknown, would have been higher since millions of people were prevented from spreading the disease.. But I will give you one old estimation from some experts: Coronavirus lockdowns prevented 60M cases in 6 countries, study suggests | Fox News

    Fair enough if you really think that the lockdown caused an increase in deaths.. I think your assumption is immensely wrong. But you've got a point about quality of life. But don't let your annoyance about the lockdown prevent you from including both plusses and minuses in your little equation (like for instance the decreased number of deaths due to car accidents that or due to the normal flu).

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