COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 943

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  1. #9421
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderFun View Post
    Whatever the mechanism, I know working a few hours straight in one of those things definitely had noticeable negative effects. Thankfully a short lunch break in the car without it got me clear of most of them. The headache kinda persisted throughout the day.
    The subjective response to mask-wearing is quite variable. I work in a hospital, and all staff have been masked during work hours for months. I haven't heard anything except for mild annoyance. I have a colleague who is a regular smoker who is very worried about getting covid, and wears an N95 (which is more restrictive and uncomfortable) with a surgical mask over it. For the record, he's nuts, but he has managed fine and does this voluntarily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soule View Post
    So, for whatever reason, masks reduce your o2 levels, elevate your heart rate and the impaired breathing causes anxiety and likely raises your cortisol levels. Why the fuck do we have children wearing them?
    They don't meaningfully reduce O2. They might increase heart rate during exercise. Yes they might cause anxiety. I don't give a shit about cortisol and nobody knows if they raise cortisol or what that would even mean if they did. The question of whether kids should wear them is complicated, but the harm to them from wearing or not wearing them is likely mostly related to the behavior of adults around them. I am not worried about their physical health one way or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Charles View Post
    I think that humans are very sensitive to partial pressures of O2 (ratio for sake of argument). I donít know the physiology but know in the laboratory safety environment O2 sensors are set to alarm when it deviates slightly from 20%. Classical cases involves suffocating when a lot of liquid nitrogen evaporates rapidly. (Same for confined spaces, welding in confined spaces, etc.). Itís often not toxins, itís suffocation. (Helium oxygen divers may know the requirements too).

    I doubt masks can change partial pressure much (altitude doesnít - just changes amounts). Maybe a very moist mask does? Any ideas?
    I think that humans can do fine with a pretty wide range of O2 partial pressures, and that the alarms are set to alert you that something is wrong with your equipment that could cause a problem if it gets out of hand, not that you are in immediate mortal danger at 19%. Otherwise we would have those alarms all over the place and have supplemental oxygen ready in the event someone ripped a fart in an elevator. Come to think of it, that's not a bad idea given some elevators I've been in. I could be wrong about this, though. Maybe you could look it up and report back, since you brought it up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Kaul View Post
    Just to reiterate: your link (not me) suggests that chronic mask wearing during daily activities is a clinically-significant risk to public health, as indicated by objective, statistically-significant physiological responses. Why are you concerned with O2 and RPE?
    So you think that a slightly elevated heart rate during moderate exercise is a "clinically-significant risk to public health?" I think it just means that if I wear a mask I don't have to push the prowler as fast to get the same benefit. We have a major problem in this country with sedentary people who don't ever get their heart rates up. Now that you mention it, I think masks could save lives on a much wider scale, and should be mandatory for everyone with BMI>30 forever! For real, though, I'm not concerned with O2 or RPE or anything else when it comes to masks. I am trying to avoid both pro- and anti-mask hysteria. I truly don't give a shit, basically. I only come across as Captain Mask-em-up on this forum in comparison to the anti-mask virtue signallers who feel that since they are right the science must be on their side. If everyone here was advocating for universal lockdowns and vaccine verification chips, I would probably sound more like Rip, and just repeatedly post about a 99.3% survival rate.

  2. #9422
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfsully View Post
    This AMA "resolution" has been posted about before. I don't think it has any significance at all. Doctors are allowed to prescribe medications for off-label uses. Nobody asks the AMA what they think when they are treating a patient, and the AMA does not have authority to dictate treatment. This looks pretty symbolic to me.

    FDA has authority about how emergency stockpiles of drugs are used, and this had affected use of hydroxychloroquine in the spring, I think, as some hospitals were drawing on the emergency stockpiles that are under FDA influence. But aside from that, if you can find a pharmacy to supply it, and a doctor to prescribe it, you can pretty much get whatever you want, no matter what the FDA or AMA think (short of FDA taking a drug off the market, I suppose).
    Sully, the problem is doctors can't prescribe and pharmacies can't fill without approval from the state. The ultimate authority for all medical decisions over everyone's lives lies with the state (or at least they'd like everyone to think so). When the AMA started grumbling over hydroxychloroquine, our banana-spined governor CANCELLED an $800,000 order for hydroxychloroquine so the company donated it to poor countries "who needed it." You can't make this stuff up. The ensuing media shit-storm over our precious health care dollars which were wasted on the order scared the docs in Utah from prescribing it. Hell, I personally know a doctor (who I am very close to) that still refuses to prescribe it.

  3. #9423
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    Quote Originally Posted by wal View Post
    That's a lot of poop to shovel.

    The Donkey is an Ass. "An ass, having put on the lion's skin, turned about in the forest, and amused himself by frightening all the foolish animals he met in his wanderings",

    Looks like you folk(s) need a third political party.
    No, what we need is a second one.

  4. #9424
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  5. #9425
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    This satire interview of Dr Zelenko had me laughing as well as crying from sadness at the same time. When I was listening to it, I actually thought it was real.The reason being, I find it difficult to differentiate between the satire reporter and real life reporters of mainstream media. They are literally the bottom 3 percent youtube commenters leading the many.

    Red Dawn News interview w/ Dr. Zelenko Pt 1 of 2

  6. #9426
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kirkham View Post
    Sully, the problem is doctors can't prescribe and pharmacies can't fill without approval from the state. The ultimate authority for all medical decisions over everyone's lives lies with the state (or at least they'd like everyone to think so). When the AMA started grumbling over hydroxychloroquine, our banana-spined governor CANCELLED an $800,000 order for hydroxychloroquine so the company donated it to poor countries "who needed it." You can't make this stuff up. The ensuing media shit-storm over our precious health care dollars which were wasted on the order scared the docs in Utah from prescribing it. Hell, I personally know a doctor (who I am very close to) that still refuses to prescribe it.
    I had to look into that one. It's generally not true that state approval is required for dispensing a medication, but individual exceptions can be specified. It looks like early in the year, Utah did start to establish a HCQ stockpile that would be available without a prescription. This was reconsidered, and that was the $800,000 order that was cancelled. That would have in fact been a waste of medicine, as it would have been taken by people who didn't need it. Then there was an order from the Utah Board of Pharmacy stating that every HCQ prescription must contain a diagnosis, test result, and be for max of 7 day supply. This was presumably to prevent a run on HCQ by people trying to prophylax against covid, that would deprive people with RA or lupus from needed medication. It's not clear from looking at the order how strict they are about the indications for prescribing. It's possible you could diagnose covid and refer to one of the (few, weak) positive studies and prescribe it. If a doc felt really strongly, and a pharmacist was sympathetic, I bet you could get the Rx. But I can see why they might not want to deal with the bullshit. So it's effectively banned.

    Perfect example of poorly-understood science tainted by politics leading to a SNAFU where everyone is unhappy. HCQ may have use in mild-moderate COVID, and that's questionable. It's not a preventative, and it doesn't help when you're really sick. Rather than just use it where it is observed to be possibly helpful, your guys went from throwing open the floodgates to slamming them shut. Neither approach really makes sense. But nobody is actually required to make sense, especially if they work for the government.

  7. #9427
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfsully View Post
    The subjective response to mask-wearing is quite variable. I work in a hospital, and all staff have been masked during work hours for months. I haven't heard anything except for mild annoyance. I have a colleague who is a regular smoker who is very worried about getting covid, and wears an N95 (which is more restrictive and uncomfortable) with a surgical mask over it. For the record, he's nuts, but he has managed fine and does this voluntarily.



    They don't meaningfully reduce O2. They might increase heart rate during exercise. Yes they might cause anxiety. I don't give a shit about cortisol and nobody knows if they raise cortisol or what that would even mean if they did. The question of whether kids should wear them is complicated, but the harm to them from wearing or not wearing them is likely mostly related to the behavior of adults around them. I am not worried about their physical health one way or the other.



    I think that humans can do fine with a pretty wide range of O2 partial pressures, and that the alarms are set to alert you that something is wrong with your equipment that could cause a problem if it gets out of hand, not that you are in immediate mortal danger at 19%. Otherwise we would have those alarms all over the place and have supplemental oxygen ready in the event someone ripped a fart in an elevator. Come to think of it, that's not a bad idea given some elevators I've been in. I could be wrong about this, though. Maybe you could look it up and report back, since you brought it up?



    So you think that a slightly elevated heart rate during moderate exercise is a "clinically-significant risk to public health?" I think it just means that if I wear a mask I don't have to push the prowler as fast to get the same benefit. We have a major problem in this country with sedentary people who don't ever get their heart rates up. Now that you mention it, I think masks could save lives on a much wider scale, and should be mandatory for everyone with BMI>30 forever! For real, though, I'm not concerned with O2 or RPE or anything else when it comes to masks. I am trying to avoid both pro- and anti-mask hysteria. I truly don't give a shit, basically. I only come across as Captain Mask-em-up on this forum in comparison to the anti-mask virtue signallers who feel that since they are right the science must be on their side. If everyone here was advocating for universal lockdowns and vaccine verification chips, I would probably sound more like Rip, and just repeatedly post about a 99.3% survival rate.
    Personally, I am not concerned too much with masksí impact on O2 but I am annoyed with how they [subjectively] make me feel (mentally and physically.)

    However, I have growing amusement at watching jsully slowly unravel from his previously austere physician (psychiatrist) disposition into distain for the non-MD plebs on this forum. Or perhaps the veneer has just started peeling away.

  8. #9428
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    To put things into perspective I'd refer everyone to start looking again at Sweden's public health performance in 2020. Here's what I've gathered:

    Background
    Population of Sweden in 2020: 10,120,195
    [Comparative population of Sweden in 2015: 9,764,950]

    Urbanisation: 88.2%
    Ranked by population density: Ranked 193/235
    Aging Demographic: 20% of the total population 65 years+
    Lockdown order: No
    Mask mandate: No
    Restrictions - Ban on gatherings of more than 50 people, restrictions on visiting care homes, schools were closed in parts of 2020 to children over the age of 16 and a shift to table-only service in bars and restaurants.
    Other factors to consider - Voluntary social distancing guidelines since the start of the pandemic, including working from home where possible and avoiding public transport. Postponement or cancellation of elective surgery.
    Failures – Both the C19 infection rate are reported as considered to be very high compared to the rest of the world – ranked 24th worst affected country in the world. Reports suggest almost 50% of Sweden's Covid19 fatalities were amongst those in Nursing homes.

    I'll run through the mortality data before they imposed their unscientific restrictions on 24 November and to rule out any major lag.

    Preliminary 2020 statistics up until 23 November:
    Number of C19 cases in population – 225,899
    Total C19 Cases/1 Million population – 22,322
    C19 deaths recorded until 23 November 2020 – 6,799
    Total C19 Deaths / 1 Million population - 672
    C19 Mortality rate – 0.07%
    Deaths as a percentage of those over 70 - 90%

    Predicted C19 deaths by 1 July applying an Imperial College model - between 42,000 to 85,000
    Actual C19 deaths by 1 July – 5,497

    Total all cause deaths: from 1st January to 23rd November 2020 – 83,489
    Total all cause deaths: average of corresponding date range for the last five years (2015-2019) – 79,472
    Excess deaths over five year average – 4,017

    Other comparisons to specific years:-
    Total all cause deaths: from 1st January to 23rd November 2018 – 80,190
    Total all cause deaths: from 1st January to 23rd November 2015 – 80,421

    Deaths per 100,000 population in 2020 - 825
    Deaths per 100,000 population in 2015 - 824


    Based on these statistics, especially looking at the all cause deaths per million rate, I don't see the 1918 scenario that world governments and the MSM would like us to believe. Enough to encourage sensible precautions yes, but not to the degree of damaging livelihoods, or wanting to take individual freedoms away.

  9. #9429
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfsully View Post
    So you think that a slightly elevated heart rate during moderate exercise is a "clinically-significant risk to public health?" I think it just means that if I wear a mask I don't have to push the prowler as fast to get the same benefit. We have a major problem in this country with sedentary people who don't ever get their heart rates up.
    NIOSH conducted your study. 3.5 miles per hour approximates the chronic load of daily activity - akin to pushing a grocery cart or walking a dog. In this context, a population-wide elevation of 10 BPM is huge. That is on par with the seasonal fluctuation of cardiovascular parameters, which drive much of the seasonal change in mortality.

    Anyone who confuses chronic stress and acute exercise is, well, confused.

  10. #9430
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnst_nhb View Post
    Personally, I am not concerned too much with masksí impact on O2 but I am annoyed with how they [subjectively] make me feel (mentally and physically.)

    However, I have growing amusement at watching jsully slowly unravel from his previously austere physician (psychiatrist) disposition into distain for the non-MD plebs on this forum. Or perhaps the veneer has just started peeling away.
    Glad to entertain. It's not really disdain as much as natural smart-assery. I do, though, have disdain for people who don't know better acting as if they do, and people who should know better acting as if they don't.

    I'm just glad everyone is making me feel at home where I can be myself instead of having to be professional all the time.

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