COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 92

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  1. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Kaul View Post
    My position has been simple (and free of jargon). A collapsed medical system is unacceptable. To prevent that, the economy did have some leeway for lockdowns.
    Do you also advocate the shut down of the economy every flu season?

    Also, whatever 'leeway' may be present is quite irrelevant, because a peacetime government simply should not have the power to force businesses to close en masse like this, especially not on such a flimsy justification, regardless of whether there is in fact any 'leeway' or not. Look at the totally anemic responses of much of the population who have accepted all this, and ask yourself whether a mandatory shut down was even necessary to achieve the practical outcomes which they ostensibly desired. The behaviour of many around me in the last few weeks has led me to a dispiriting conclusion: that most people are unthinkingly obedient to the point at which they would have happily locked themselves up in their houses merely on the government's recommendation and the parading of a few 'experts' in front of the news cameras asking them to do so. I'm sure you noticed the enormous numbers of people clamouring for government-enforced lockdown well before it appeared that the government was actually contemplating it. Most people today are scared of liberty, and want to be serfs.

  2. #912
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Waskis View Post
    One of the common questions asked by those who favor shutting down the country to "flatten the curve" is something to the effect of "at what level or mortality would you start to become concerned?". Phrased as an accusation, it looks like this: "you don’t care about a million excess deaths so long as it keeps the economy going another month".

    I wonder what those who present such arguments (Bruno, lazygun, etc.) would answer to that same question asked slightly differently.

    Is tanking the economy worth it to save one life? How about ten? A thousand? Where would YOU draw the line?

    To take a turn making a hyperbolic accusation: you don't care about putting a third of the country on unemployment and adding $2 trillion to the national debt as long as it saves the life of one 89 year old man with multiple comorbidities.
    Rob, this is a very good post and you articulate many things (conflicting thoughts, if I am being honest) that are going through my head.

    Answer - for me, it would depend on which life/lives. Is MY life worth it? No. But if you asked my wife, she'd say yes. It is very confusing, and something that is difficult to wrap my thoughts around.

    Unrelated to your post...why in hell did Wimbledon get CANCELLED? Play with no one in the stands. You're 30 yards from each other! Same with golf and the masters. Just makes absolutely no sense to me.

  3. #913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Bruno has said he's a "healthcare worker." This means he will not be laid off, but maybe he can be fired. Meanwhile, lazygun is a bureaucrat who also cannot be laid off. They do not understand our perspective.
    That's been my local observation: Those that have jobs that pay through this madness/stupidly, have a rather cavalier look at the problems of folks that have lost their jobs or had their business shut down. I used to earn by doing craft shows and farmers markets. If you're a crafter, you've already gone three months without income. You expected to start working and now you've been told 'We all need to be prepared to make sacrifices' by those that are sacrificing nothing. Adding insult to injury, some shows will not refund fees. So depending on your show schedule, you could also be out several thousand dollars.

  4. #914
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    I put together some quick data. Here's a table showing the virus death rate, per million, for each state. (I'm using population numbers from Wikipedia and virus deaths as of today from the foxnews web site.


    State Population Deaths Deaths / million
    NY 19,453,561 2373 121.98
    LA 4,648,794 310 66.68
    NJ 8,882,190 537 60.46
    MI 9,986,857 335 33.54
    WA 7,614,893 254 33.36
    VT 623,989 16 25.64
    CT 3,565,287 85 23.84
    MA 6,949,503 122 17.56
    GA 10,617,423 163 15.35
    CO 5,758,736 79 13.72
    IL 12,671,821 157 12.39
    IN 6,732,219 78 11.59
    DE 973,764 11 11.30
    NV 3,080,156 32 10.39
    RI 1,059,361 10 9.44
    OK 3,956,971 30 7.58
    MS 2,976,149 22 7.39
    PA 12,801,989 90 7.03
    SC 5,148,714 31 6.02
    FL 21,477,737 128 5.96
    AL 4,903,185 28 5.71
    MT 1,068,778 6 5.61
    OH 11,689,100 65 5.56
    CA 39,512,223 216 5.47
    ME 1,344,212 7 5.21
    MD 6,045,680 31 5.13
    ID 1,792,065 9 5.02
    WI 5,822,434 28 4.81
    OR 4,217,737 19 4.50
    KY 4,467,673 20 4.48
    AK 731,545 3 4.10
    VA 8,535,519 35 4.10
    AZ 7,278,717 29 3.98
    AR 3,017,825 12 3.98
    ND 762,062 3 3.94
    TN 6,833,174 24 3.51
    IA 3,155,070 11 3.49
    KS 2,913,314 10 3.43
    MN 5,639,632 18 3.19
    MO 6,137,428 19 3.10
    NH 1,359,711 4 2.94
    NM 2,096,829 6 2.86
    TX 28,995,881 70 2.41
    SD 884,659 2 2.26
    UT 3,205,958 7 2.18
    NE 1,934,408 4 2.07
    NC 10,488,084 16 1.53
    WV 1,787,147 2 1.12
    HI 1,415,872 1 0.71
    WY 578,759 0 0.00

    In contrast, there are approximately 2.5 million deaths in the US every year, which works out to an annual death rate of 7,631 people per million.

  5. #915
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  6. #916
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    How many bodies will it take for “what about the flu herp derp” people to understand this is worse? We’re around 1k per day now and haven’t even gotten started. Is 5k of your countrymen and women dying every day enough? 10k? Guess we’ll find out within a couple weeks.

  7. #917
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    Any overplots of current and future hospital surge capacity vs COVID cases? I think I saw one where the surge capacity was a nearly invisible line at the bottom of the plot of COVID cases. Wasn’t clear how there could be any significant relative increase of that capacity, even with “flattening”.

    Also looking for baseline flu references, again in overplots against covid cases. Showing all past decades of flu data.

    Not saying this isn’t out there, just haven’t looked hard.

  8. #918
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    And so it begins.

    The EU Watches as Hungary Kills Democracy - The Atlantic

    Yet, still no convincing evidence for overwhelmed healthcare systems.

    And still no excess mortality in Japan and Sweden, who haven't locked down. Can the healthcare folks explain?

  9. #919
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    Where are all the advocates for pure democracy? One person, one vote.

    They’ve gotten very submissive it seems and are content with the decisions or their superiors.

  10. #920
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    starting strength coach development program
    In the outbreak of the coronavirus and the disease it spreads, COVID-19—which has infected more than 950,000 people worldwide, including at least 585 people in Hungary—Orbán has found an ideal pretext for his latest power grab.
    So have the rulers of Wichita Falls. And your town. And your state.

    Quote Originally Posted by elVarouza View Post
    How many bodies will it take for “what about the flu herp derp” people to understand this is worse? We’re around 1k per day now and haven’t even gotten started. Is 5k of your countrymen and women dying every day enough? 10k? Guess we’ll find out within a couple weeks.
    Last year in the US, 36,560 people were killed in traffic accidents. What will it take to end this carnage? The answer is obvious: travel must be made illegal. The current martial law/curfew/lockdown situation will tell you everything you need to know about this within a couple of weeks. And 500,000 deaths per year are attributed to smoking-related diseases in the US. What will it take to end this carnage? The answer is obvious, etc.

    This is a silly position you have assumed.

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