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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #1861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Ebner View Post
    It's possible that you read something that I didn't catch but the article makes ZERO reference to any sort of actual training happening. This is exactly my issue with the whole program to begin with and why the Gestapo analogy is apt. Last thing anybody needs right now is an illiterate farmer (shout out to Bloomberg) with a sack of letters reporting Joe Upstanding Citizen to the police because his wife answered the door crying... Maybe she was chopping onions, maybe her grandmother just died of COVID, maybe she's binge watching soaps--you get the idea.
    First of all, thank you so much for your very civil response. Your personal experience is very relevant here, and I appreciate you sharing it. Training may have been too strong a word, but the article refers to them receiving "instruction." I may be conflating the terms, but I think the sentiment stands.

    Still, I think your statement about onions, dead grandmas, and soap operas contributes to my point. Too often, people are ready to write signs off domestic violence off to something else so that it's not their problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Ebner View Post
    I'm a college professor by day. We have the same reporting requirements in the US. I piss on those requirements because I have a PhD in Geography (also happens to be a requirement of my employment, fwiw), which means I'll be the first person to tell you that I'm not qualified to identify, at first blush no less, the signs of any kind of abuse at all, ever, in any situation, period, full stop, end of story. I would, morally speaking, feel MUCH worse if I reported a student with bruises--a boxer, perhaps--who had an otherwise adoring family to CPS than if I FAILED to report a bruised kid who had a shitty stepdad.

    Why, you ask, my Northern brother? Because I've been wrongly accused of serious crimes before and that shit never stops haunting you. It cost me my employment, potential future employment, all of my dozen or so firearms (nevermind the 2nd amendment implications, this is many thousands of dollars of an investment that never loses its value), and several tens of thousand of dollars in legal fees, to scratch the surface. I wouldn't wish the justice system, here nor there, on my worst enemy and that's not an exaggeration.
    I feel like we have some common ground here. I feel similarly unqualified to positively identify abuse, as do my colleagues who've felt compelled to report it. Especially because I work with special needs students who are often physically aggressive at home, or who may make statements about self-harm that they don't actually mean. That's why we take the obligation so seriously. We're well aware of the implications that reporting can have on families.

    I hate that the accusations made against you had such severe consequences. That absolutely sucks. That's where my personal experience differs from yours. As I mentioned, I haven't had to report any suspected abuse, but I have colleagues who have. In those cases, most turned out to be unwarranted, but were resolved with a few meetings with our equivalent of CPS. There may have been some legal costs incurred, but I can't speak to that with any degree of confidence.

    Where I think we differ is on your point about a boxer vs. a kid with a shitty stepdad. Sounds like you deal with typical students who are, for all intents and purposes, adults. I deal with minors, and the few who are of legal age are still vulnerable. We don't have many boxers in our population, so the shitty stepdad situation is more likely. It's still a fine line to walk though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Ebner View Post
    I truly do appreciate your careful reading and understanding of my initial post and I thank you for clarifying this important distinction. I also appreciate your eagerness for a healthy debate. Americans are indeed hypervigilant against tyranny. It is one of our redeeming characteristics. I will concede, however, that Canadians are far superior at respectfully disagreeing and that's an admirable quality.
    I appreciate your appreciation! I agree that it's one of your many redeeming characteristics, and it's one of the many reasons I appreciate this forum so much. I get to engage with that perspective, without dealing with the bottom 3% of humanity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Ebner View Post
    My mother was born in a DP camp in Wolfratzhausen, Germany in 1947 so I also appreciate your keenness for not sloppily issuing crass analogies and, under different circumstances, I would probably even agree with you. BUT, given the current dynamics, where police in the UK are on the verge of hand-searching people's groceries for non-essential items, police in NYC are dragging people off of busses for not wearing masks, and police in California are writing $1000 tickets for not wearing masks IN YOUR CAR (yes, really--a student of mine was pulled over last week and given a warning in Riverside county), I'm gonna stick with my Gestapo analogy.
    Again, I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. I think that the current climate might be amplifying that hypervigilance to a degree that I don't always agree with, but I'm happy to chalk that up to our very different personal experiences.

    My partner finds herself in LA fairly regularly for work, and one of these days I hope to accompany her. I don't expect the free lifetime membership to SSLA that George earned himself, but if I ever make my way there I'd love to poke my head in and buy you a beer.

    Thanks again for the civil discourse!

  2. #1862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Ebner View Post
    Don't think I don't know this. I'm Jewish, after all, and if I thought you were ever really going to be in a position to utilise it, I wouldn't have offered.
    I always allow for chances of an exception when dealing with useful stereotypes.

  3. #1863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Berry View Post
    There is at least one on this board who would probably donate a large part of their paycheck to any cause that could guarantee such internment camps, and/or heap praise on the forward thinking policy maker that made it happen.

    sb
    Once again, are people not sick? Would you prefer to wait until large numbers of bodies start to pile up before we act? Have you read up on "Typhoid Mary" yet? Do you see the fault of your prior analogy?

  4. #1864
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    Peter Robinson interviewed one of the guys involved with that Santa Clara County study, if any one is interested in seeing what one of those involved has to say about it.

    YouTube

  5. #1865
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunoLawerence View Post
    Even if we increased the supply, distribution still is a significant problem. Some areas have the equipment, whereas other areas do not. Coordination in paramount here.
    The government is already tightly controlling the distribution of PPE, to the point where hospital administrators get questioned by DHS when unloading it. "Coordination" isn't going to get much better.

    Also, testing is the much bigger concern at this point, and the US falls below most every other country on this.
    PCR tests are no longer in short supply for clinical practice. There are some proposals for larger-scale blanket testing, but the PCR test is unreliable in asymptomatic populations, so those may not actually be very useful.

  6. #1866
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    government oppression
    If the .gov returns itself to pre-C19 spending, personnel, and legislation levels then all the discussion of the aforementioned will have been preemptive. However I anticipate not only the birth of new bureaucracy but also the expansion of existing. Why is it that the DHS (an agency that didn't exist 20 years ago and was born in response to another "crisis") is at the forefront of the fed response?

    Coronavirus (COVID-19) | Homeland Security

  7. #1867
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunoLawerence View Post
    Once again, are people not sick? Would you prefer to wait until large numbers of bodies start to pile up before we act? Have you read up on "Typhoid Mary" yet? Do you see the fault of your prior analogy?
    You fucking moron, the sick are the best off in this mess. You are like talking to the floor. You will not understand the following: YouTube

  8. #1868
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Kaul View Post
    The government is already tightly controlling the distribution of PPE, to the point where hospital administrators get questioned by DHS when unloading it. "Coordination" isn't going to get much better.


    PCR tests are no longer in short supply for clinical practice. There are some proposals for larger-scale blanket testing, but the PCR test is unreliable in asymptomatic populations, so those may not actually be very useful.
    The coordination has been poorly executed and left primarily up to the individual states. This has caused the states to be bidding against each other as well as the federal government. Please explain how the PCR test is unreliable in populations. I haven't heard that before and PCR tests are typically pretty damn reliable. This is a serious inquiry from my end, not saying one way or another. Actually the problem is not the equipment for the test, but rather the reagents that are needed to run the tests.

  9. #1869
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    That is a fabulous video. I’m glad to see there are still those in Britain who remember the Magna Carta.

  10. #1870
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    You fucking moron, the sick are the best off in this mess. You are like talking to the floor. You will not understand the following: YouTube
    I looked up his background, he is a medieval historian and former judge. No background in science, medicine, epidemiology or economics. We could each easily go back and forth posting video after video of some dude supporting our opinions. Some may even have cool sounding accents and scholarly appearing silvery hair. Is this productive? You know what they say about assholes and opinions, right? But before we get to that you responded to a post regarding typhoid mary. Do you not see the flaw in the logic when comparing an asymptomatic carrier with covid and saying they are not like typhoid mary? I will even throw you a bone. There is a serious ethical issue surrounding her story that any first year med student knows that you could argue for. However, I would perhaps still argue that we shouldn't put her back in the kitchen. (read the story and you will understand).

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