COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 214

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  1. #2131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillon Spencer View Post
    Were you? Would every other person whose receipt he might touch? I'm just saying, if we're going to push for things to reopen, whether all at once or gradually, some PPE and not touching shit we don't absolutely have to touch, especially if you come into contact with hundreds of people per day, is kind of the bare minimum of common sense precautions people are talking about, no?
    Are you afraid of dying from COVID-19?

  2. #2132
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    Not even a little bit! I haven't been wearing gloves or a mask, personally. However, I do think of my 70 year old parents who are in the more vulnerable demographic. They're both pretty damn healthy for their age, but if the people working at their grocery store are taking some bare minimum, fairly nonintrusive extra precautions that might reduce the risk for them and the employees I'm cool with it.

    It's just that people seem to be taking to posting examples of ridiculously over the top "precautions" people are taking. The woman standing alone in a post office parking lot with a scarf over her face comes to mind. Definitely ridiculous! A Costco employee wearing PPE and not touching shit he doesn't have to doesn't clear that bar for me. Agree with it or not, it seems like the bare minimum we should expect if things are going to start opening back up.

  3. #2133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    You could start by opening your businesses and going back to work, like a responsible adult should do.
    Is there anything else I could do?!? I mean won’t going back to work jeopardize my stimulus check?

  4. #2134
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    Fear of life is greater than fear of death right now, Rip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillon Spencer View Post
    Were you? Would every other person whose receipt he might touch? I'm just saying, if we're going to push for things to reopen, whether all at once or gradually, some PPE and not touching shit we don't absolutely have to touch, especially if you come into contact with hundreds of people per day, is kind of the bare minimum of common sense precautions people are talking about, no?
    Something to consider. I dunno, at 69 and having ducked the bullets of polio, swine flu in the 70's, SARS, MERS, et. al. I am damned if I will wear a mask or gloves.

    Gauleiter Pritzker of Illinois "loosened" some of our house arrest yesterday. Not much though. He also said it is mandatory to wear a mask in public if 6 feet of distance can't be maintained. While I am not afraid of this latest iteration of the Kung Flu, I haven't altered my daily round of activities much. That is to say, no gym time and no library books. I do get in some training on a parkour station with a loaded backpack on the dip fixture and pull up bars, and make do further with reverse hypers while lying prone on a picnic table and step ups on a bench.

    I didn't get within 6' of anyone before, even when lifting in the gym except to ask to a spot on my bench press every few months when trying to determine my 1RM. Now, the only people I am in close proximity to is Dearly Beloved and our daughter.

    As I see it, if anyone is concerned about having a mask on within the 6' dynamic sphere, it can be the other guy. If he gets too close to me that's his problem. I'll move away out of courtesy, which I was doing before this nonsense began.

  6. #2136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillon Spencer View Post
    Not even a little bit! I haven't been wearing gloves or a mask, personally. However, I do think of my 70 year old parents who are in the more vulnerable demographic.
    And you should be thinking of them. Whose responsibility is their safety?

    They're both pretty damn healthy for their age, but if the people working at their grocery store are taking some bare minimum, fairly nonintrusive extra precautions that might reduce the risk for them and the employees I'm cool with it.
    Are your parents required to be in the grocery store? Can you or someone else not shop for them?

    A Costco employee wearing PPE and not touching shit he doesn't have to doesn't clear that bar for me. Agree with it or not, it seems like the bare minimum we should expect if things are going to start opening back up.
    Whatever Costco wants its employee to do is fine with me. If you and your parents aren't comfortable with it, you can make the reasoned decision to not shop at Costco. But is it Costco's responsibility to keep your parents safe, or to sell your parents what they need at a price they both agree on?

    See where this goes? This is the whole problem with this response to this year's contagious disease. And we let them win.

  7. #2137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    And you should be thinking of them. Whose responsibility is their safety?
    I know you're in favour of personal responsibility in all things, but we already accept PPE as mandatory in a bunch of places. Maybe you'd argue that hardhats and steel toes shouldn't be mandatory on construction sites. That's fine, but it's not the world we live in, and I don't hear too many people up in arms about it. You probably don't recall because you're involved in so many discussions on this board, but we've gone back and forth on issues like this a few times. We generally arrive at the same spot. The vast majority of people are fine with SOME level of government involvement in safety matters. At a certain point, we're just arguing about how much is acceptable. You'd like as little as possible, and I'm comfortable with more. I respect your opinion and I'd hope you respect mine.

    To be clear, I'm not even arguing in favour of mandatory PPE as a condition for reopening the economy, but I'm trying to be pragmatic. Most people wish this whole mess had never happened, but it did. To expect everyone to suddenly start behaving as if it didn't just isn't going to happen. There's going to be some silly bullshit, and this just doesn't seem like the biggest fish to fry, or the stupidest example of overreactive behaviour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Are your parents required to be in the grocery store? Can you or someone else not shop for them?
    Ultimately, no they're not. I can and I have. However, it's an hour of roundtrip driving in the car they have to lend me. I don't have my own because my daily commute by public transit is a breeze so it's not worth the expense. All their friends are their own age, and in many cases in worse health. I'm the only family they have in the city. So what's the bigger burden here? Expecting a bunch of people to start having friends and family do all their shopping, or ordering everything online? Or asking a grocery store employee, who already has to where a uniform and apron or some shit anyways, to also wear a mask and gloves? I know you're of the opinion that this isn't a big enough deal for people to be afraid to grocery shop, and I'm closer to you on that than you probably think. However, the reality is that plenty of people are, and if some extra PPE in the world is the cost for reopening the economy, I'm okay with that, to a point. I'm willing to bet most of the restaurants that have been shut down would be happy to reopen if all they had to do was have staff wear PPE for a while. Maybe it's different in Wichita Falls, but up here in Toronto I'm will to bet most restaurant owners would be thrilled with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Whatever Costco wants its employee to do is fine with me. If you and your parents aren't comfortable with it, you can make the reasoned decision to not shop at Costco. But is it Costco's responsibility to keep your parents safe, or to sell your parents what they need at a price they both agree on?
    Obviously the latter, but if they want to go ahead and do the former as well, I'm okay with that. Grocery stores already have safety requirements so that their shelves don't collapse on customers and they can't sell us meat that's been sitting on the loading dock in the sun for three days. I already know you'll say that the market would take care of that too, and I agree that it would in its way. I think reasonable people can disagree on whether that's the best way, and I think we're both well aware of where the other stands. My point is just that very few people are up in arms about those types of things, so we're back to arguing over the type and degree of safety regulations, rather than whether they should exist at all.

    Honestly, I can't believe I've even typed this much about this, because all I was trying to do was point out that a Costco employee wearing PPE and not touching a receipt he's perfectly capable of reading without touching probably wasn't worth posting as an example of ridiculous overreactive behaviour.

  8. #2138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillon Spencer View Post
    Not even a little bit! I haven't been wearing gloves or a mask, personally. However, I do think of my 70 year old parents who are in the more vulnerable demographic. They're both pretty damn healthy for their age, but if the people working at their grocery store are taking some bare minimum, fairly nonintrusive extra precautions that might reduce the risk for them and the employees I'm cool with it.
    There's no reason for this demographic to be in a store right now if they are worried.

    You can literally have people shop for them and wipe the stuff down and leave it on their doorstep.

  9. #2139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    And you should be thinking of them. Whose responsibility is their safety?



    Are your parents required to be in the grocery store? Can you or someone else not shop for them?



    Whatever Costco wants its employee to do is fine with me. If you and your parents aren't comfortable with it, you can make the reasoned decision to not shop at Costco. But is it Costco's responsibility to keep your parents safe, or to sell your parents what they need at a price they both agree on?

    See where this goes? This is the whole problem with this response to this year's contagious disease. And we let them win.
    Let's put aside for a moment that what you are implying above would make all individuals over a certain age subservient to those around them. Let's look at this purely from the standpoint of "the market". Which store do you think these individuals would prefer to shop at? The one that took simple noninvasive measures for their safety, or the one that did not take such measurements and places them at risk? Given the last part of your post you clearly understand this so what exactly are you arguing about here?

  10. #2140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillon Spencer View Post
    . My point is just that very few people are up in arms about those types of things.
    Actually more than "very few" people are up in arms about this. I have multiple friends that want to move out of their states over this.

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