COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 246

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  1. #2451
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunoLawerence View Post
    Once again, you posted concrete, conclusive evidence of your claims from a site that caters to far-right conspiracy theorists. You are a fucking idiot and it's amusing how much you question others sources when this is the type of bullshit you read, find insightful, and post to support your claims. To be clear you are a fucking idiot.
    I am not trying to defend Rip as he is quite capable of doing that himself....but how is the New York City Health Department a far right rag...and the other source is a video of funeral directors speaking about their own views for themselves...they may have a bias in that big funerals are not happening right now...but I have a lot of dealings with funeral parlors and they have a basic rate that believe it or not there isn't that much difference between the big funeral and the small funeral price wise although yes you can spend astronomically if you want but most people choose the basic funeral either way...but its still an interesting viewpoint because they manage death certificates and deal first hand with all those entities that must determine and document actual death...in other words they would be called a PRIMARY source

  2. #2452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainstream View Post
    I am not trying to defend Rip as he is quite capable of doing that himself....but how is the New York City Health Department a far right rag...and the other source is a video of funeral directors speaking about their own views for themselves...they may have a bias in that big funerals are not happening right now...but I have a lot of dealings with funeral parlors and they have a basic rate that believe it or not there isn't that much difference between the big funeral and the small funeral price wise although yes you can spend astronomically if you want but most people choose the basic funeral either way...but its still an interesting viewpoint because they manage death certificates and deal first hand with all those entities that must determine and document actual death...in other words they would be called a PRIMARY source
    It's not the New York City Health Department Bruno was calling a far right rag, it was Project Veritas, the posters of the funeral director video. If people are going to rail against the agenda of the MSM, at least do some research about these alternative sources and consider whether or not they may have agendas of their own. I had actually forgotten about Project Veritas and James O'Keefe. Clicked on over to their website, and actually thought their stated goal of using citizen journalism to expose corruption sounds pretty cool! It's obviously up to each individual to decide whether or not they're pursuing that goal in an even handed, agenda free manner. I don't think anyone here is going to change anyone else's mind one way or the other.

  3. #2453
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    When youtube (and others) start to take down dissenting views, they only places they can be voiced are the sites that cater to 'far-right conspiracy theorists'.

  4. #2454
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    I just got word the Mormon Church cancelled all camping activities--world wide--for 2020.

    All remaining Scouts (and there are not many who are not Mormon in Utah) are being directed to Camp Loll, by Yellowstone. The Director of Yellowstone National Park is intending to open Yellowstone in June, but he has advised the Director of Camp Loll (a Camp where I have volunteered for many years) that we will be on our own this year due to a shortage of Rangers.

    One the one hand it is good they trust us in the backcountry, as we worked very hard to earn their trust for many, many years now. On the other hand it is very sad there is a shortage of Rangers and tourism will certainly suffer in a part of the country that absolutely relies on it. The counties surrounding Yellowstone are, by and large, very poor.

  5. #2455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I don't care for these videos, and frankly the entire coding "debate" no longer holds my attention. Coding of "probable" deaths is obviously going to involve judgement calls. Is there any evidence that "confirmed" deaths are being misreported?

    My girlfriend is a specialist surgeon who earns a living on elective procedures, so I'm well aware of this.

  6. #2456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainstream View Post
    I am not trying to defend Rip as he is quite capable of doing that himself....but how is the New York City Health Department a far right rag...and the other source is a video of funeral directors speaking about their own views for themselves...they may have a bias in that big funerals are not happening right now...but I have a lot of dealings with funeral parlors and they have a basic rate that believe it or not there isn't that much difference between the big funeral and the small funeral price wise although yes you can spend astronomically if you want but most people choose the basic funeral either way...but its still an interesting viewpoint because they manage death certificates and deal first hand with all those entities that must determine and document actual death...in other words they would be called a PRIMARY source
    Bruno is a troll. He trades in pain and suffering.

  7. #2457
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunoLawerence View Post
    Once again, you posted concrete, conclusive evidence of your claims from a site that caters to far-right conspiracy theorists. You are a fucking idiot and it's amusing how much you question others sources when this is the type of bullshit you read, find insightful, and post to support your claims. To be clear you are a fucking idiot.
    Bruno is just salty that Doritos made him gay.

  8. #2458
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    The revised Santa Clara paper is posted. As I previously told, they collected more validation data and completely redid their flawed CI estimate.

    They now claim 0.7-1.8% prevalence; 1.3-4.7% if you believe their reweighting scheme. I haven't looked at their new analysis yet.

  9. #2459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Kaul View Post
    I don't care for these videos, and frankly the entire coding "debate" no longer holds my attention.
    It's hard to learn anything when you don't like what you're learning. I had that problem with freshman sociology, which I consider at least as biased as Project Veritas.

  10. #2460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Kaul View Post
    after the censorship.

    Here is a defensible reanalysis of the the Santa Clara statistics, making the correct quantitative conclusions. Though, for a highly contentious topic, I prefer the frequentist setup of the original paper.
    Well written paper. And shows how uninformative the original data are.

    We re-analyze some of the conclusions of the original authors based on our estimate of the rate of infection, 0.27% to 3.21%. This rate of infection means between 5,000 and 65,000 people were infected in Santa Clara county. As of
    April 1st, 956 cases had been confirmed in Santa Clara. This would correspond to between a 5-to-1 and 65-to-1 ratio of observed-to-total cases of COVID-19 (the underascertainment rate).
    The lower bound of the estimated ratio is ten times smaller than that of the flawed analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kirkham View Post
    This really is the heart of the discussion.

    Now...a question. Who gets to define “the greater good?”

    Those adhering to Sharia? Hell, I’ve even been around some Christians I don’t want making laws for “the greater good.”
    Let's go one level deeper. Should it be defined in the first place?

    I think it should. And I think the "definition" should be sought for rationally.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kirkham View Post
    C.S. Lewis said it best,

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
    This is a wonderful quote, I had not seen it. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yngvi View Post

    In the United States, the constitution outlines very specifically when individual rights may be infringed upon for the greater good. Those requirements are either a prior declaration of martial law or a national health emergency declaration by the president, in addition or prior written notification from the president to congress of specifically what measures need to be taken, a thorough justification of those measures and a statement of when they will expire. None of these steps have been taken, so infringements on freedoms are unconstitutional. Mayors do not have the power they have grabbed, police do not have the authority they have usurped, health departments are not law-making agencies, governors can declare martial law in a state, but it is subject to judicial and federal oversight. Not one governor has declared martial law, because that would be political suicide, except in the most dire of circumstances.

    The current political response has bypassed not only the constitution, but also the system of checks and balances that has kept the United States free and intact.
    Thank you for this.

    The constitution seems eminently reasonable here. If it has been violated, this is a problem.

    Secondly, if I'm understanding others' position correctly here, they think the constitution is unjust on this point (i.e. they think that individual rights should never be infringed upon for the greater good, regardless of whether the constitutionally declared conditions are met.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I appreciate your honesty, even though I would kill you if I had to, to preserve my freedom. Many of us would, and you would find that to be a problem
    What action by myself would constitute threatening your freedom, Rip? Having a discussion with you (with the intention that I can better understand your mind)?

    One of the main reasons I joined this thread, 6 weeks ago, was so that I could have a proper meeting of the minds with those who hold different beliefs than me.

    Not to engage in war. Not to threaten freedoms. But to understand. If that isn't clear by now, then we might as well give up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post

    Let me try, one more time, to summarize my position for you, before you risk your life trying to take my liberty: In Wichita County, Texas there have been 62 confirmed cases of COVID-19 out of a county population of 131,000. This is a case rate of 0.04%. Of that number, there have been 2 deaths, for a CFR of 3.2% but a death rate of 0.0015% of the population. We have no idea about the number of infections, because widespread testing has not been done, but the number is obviously higher than 62. But this does not matter to me -- 2 deaths out of 131,000 is not a significant number of deaths to justify giving up my liberty, and I will not do it voluntarily.
    And let me repeat myself:

    I am not talking about Wichita County. I'm talking about high density covid virgin cities.

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