COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 369

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  1. #3681
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    And here's another very interesting thing: The DA in Minneapolis has changed the charge against their fine officer Derek Chauvin from 3rd-degree murder to 2nd-degree murder.
    It's gonna be Zimmerman 2: Acquittal Boogaloo. Prosecutors are overreaching to appease dumb people who don't understand how murder degrees work. It's not "bad murder-really bad murder-worst possible murder", it's technical details of the killing. It has nothing to do with what the public's moral disgust level for the crime is. Although that might play a big role in the actual sentencing. End result is more outrage when they get off, and they blame some kind of "systemic racism" for the acquittal rather than the overzealous prosecution. The fact that people are coming away with the message "rioting works better than voting" is not good either. Because this is all going to happen again.

    Quote Originally Posted by ltomo View Post
    On another note, it seems like the protests are starting to wind down. Am I wrong on that? I scanned Twitter this morning and it didn't seem like there was nearly as much looting and rioting. Could be a good sign, or it could just be a lull before the next thing. "Second-wave" imminent?
    We'll see by the time the weekend wraps up. Some think it's going to flare up over the weekend for whatever reason. I don't see why, the majority of people rioting and even the people protesting probably on average didn't have jobs even before the lockdown. From what I'm seeing and my own small experience, these people are moving out into the suburbs and rural areas and it's like invading another fucking planet for them. Meanwhile, the people in these areas are not just taking it lying down. Even a lot of the outlying urban areas are rallying against the riot shenanigans.

  2. #3682
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Christiansen View Post
    Intent is the issue. The abuse element of clearly going further than what was needed is obvious. The idea that he intended to kill him or even did something that you would do to kill him is flat out wrong.

    They will never actually be able to prove intent because it is not normal for someone to die from that. You pass out from something like that waaay before you actually die.

    And every lifelong criminal cries about police brutality during an arrest, so that part is not only irrelevant, but proof that he COULD breathe.

    Cop was wrong, but people are just being stupid and greedy because they want to sacrifice someone to the rioters.
    Seems to me that he passed out and the motherfucker still had his knee on his neck for a couple minutes, which is more than enough to kill someone. Maybe death wasn’t the intention, but that’s some serious fucking ignorance.

  3. #3683
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Christiansen View Post
    Intent is the issue. The abuse element of clearly going further than what was needed is obvious. The idea that he intended to kill him or even did something that you would do to kill him is flat out wrong.

    They will never actually be able to prove intent because it is not normal for someone to die from that. You pass out from something like that waaay before you actually die.
    Minneapolis police rendered 44 people unconscious with neck restraints since 2015 | kare11.com

    They’re all going to walk because the neck asphyxiation method Chauvin used wasn’t banned by MPD despite most police precincts having done so. The article above states 244 people detained or arrested by MPD had this used on them since 2015 and 44 blacked out.

    So, the expectation, in my opinion, of all 4 cops, was that George Floyd was going to sit there complaining of not being able to breathe and he’d eventually just black out - like all the others.

    The line of “intent to kill” will obviously be blurred by the lawyers and all that is required to be not guilty is reasonable doubt.

    It doesn’t make any of them lesser pieces of shit, but there is most likely a legal avenue rooted in “standard operating procedure” that will void them of the notion of intent.

    I’m not a lawyer, but we all know how this bullshit works....

  4. #3684
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Rowe View Post
    Why won't anyone call them what they are? It's Marxism... they're Marxists all the way down.

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    Wars aren't even fought over power anymore. Power can be obtained through other means. It's ideas, and there are three prevailing ideas that carry significant geopolitical influence.

    1. American liberty with protections for individual rights
    2. Marxism
    3. Islam

    The first is utterly incompatible with the other two. There are some sects of Islam that are reformist and peaceful, but the largest body, Sharia, is not. And it is not "extremism" or "radical Islam." It is fundamental to the ideology. I think the disagreements between Trump and Mattis come from a lack of each's ability to deal with all of the threats the latter two pose. Trump is focused on here. Mattis is focused abroad. Both have policies that are inadequate.

    Then, Marxism almost always fails quickly (read:genocide and famine), but it continues in two locations: the United States and China. China has survived its own ideology through both a semi-privatization of business with a pseudo free market and by seizing the means of production from the US. The ghost of the Soviet Union lives on in American Leftism though the information subversion ("Disinformatika") that has propagated. The Soviets did not foresee how rapidly China would rise nor how quickly they would fall after the space race proved their inferiority and the Bay of Pigs proved that even they were unwilling to destroy the Earth.

    I feel I also have to take a moment to point out the obvious: I'm not speaking with regard to individuals who believe in one of these ideals. I'm such a naive classical liberal that I still refuse to target an individual for their beliefs. I'm worried that I will soon lose that luxury because the Marxists will take it from us through their insistence on control and violence to destroy anyone they deem enemies. Which is everyone but themselves.
    Good post

  5. #3685
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    What the hell is going on? We are now being told face masks in the UK will become mandatory in public transport. The science now confirms not only do they protect people from the wearer but it also protects the wearer themselves. Talk about a u-turn. Of bigger concern the MSM have now dropped stories on the virus and have moved the storyline to a "race war". The funeral of George Floyd is being aired on all MSM channels; no social distancing or a limit to just close family members only attending the funerals. Talk about a kick in the teeth to the 100,000s of friends to those who've died that aren't able to attend a funeral of someone that they've lost during lockdown. MSM are pushing the narrative into overdrive and trying to encourage mass protests in UK cities. We've seen a few 1000 protesting in UK cities mainly from Antifa thugs and brainless students. It won't happen on a grand scale though as the majority of Brits are too smart to fall for sponsored provocateurs. Does anyone even believe this is still about a virus? It's an obvious smoke screen to remove Trump and Republican power from office. I'm seriously getting tired of this nonsense. Wish they'd just fast forward to December when we get the second wave over with thanks to the easy "died with" COVID deaths from all the undiagnosed cancer patients that are walking around at the moment. They might boost up the figures with all the additional deaths from stalled vaccine programmes in Africa (Est 80 million babies at risk). Just shoot me up with the mandatory coronavirus vaccine now and lets close the bloody book!

  6. #3686
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    I tried to start a thread on the Floyd case here but it wasn't accepted. Since I see it's now part of this discussion I want to know if anyone heard they both worked at the same club in that town as security. One commentator on Fox suggested that Floyd may have known something he shouldn't have and may have been killed for that reason.

  7. #3687
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soule View Post
    Seems to me that he passed out and the motherfucker still had his knee on his neck for a couple minutes, which is more than enough to kill someone. Maybe death wasn’t the intention, but that’s some serious fucking ignorance.
    And maybe death was the intent, but how do you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynJerry View Post
    I tried to start a thread on the Floyd case here but it wasn't accepted. Since I see it's now part of this discussion I want to know if anyone heard they both worked at the same club in that town as security. One commentator on Fox suggested that Floyd may have known something he shouldn't have and may have been killed for that reason.
    That was mentioned earlier by me.

  8. #3688
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Christiansen View Post
    Intent is the issue. The abuse element of clearly going further than what was needed is obvious. The idea that he intended to kill him or even did something that you would do to kill him is flat out wrong.
    Seems to me intent will be a tricky bridge to build. Murder 3 was a stretch. Murder 2 will be highly unlikely. Manslaughter probably would fly. Although I wish Brodie Butland would weigh in on this. His read on it as a lawyer would be more solid.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Christiansen View Post
    They will never actually be able to prove intent because it is not normal for someone to die from that. You pass out from something like that waaay before you actually die.
    Chauvin probably didn't kill Floyd with his knee on his neck. Although he certainly added to the (dis)stress Floyd was in. IMO, the other cops sitting on his body while face down is what did him in. Given the upper and downer in his tox screen, coupled with the discovery he had C-19, it had to have had a bad effect on his ability to breathe it seems to me. The dueling autopsy results only seem to obfuscate it his physical condition. But, as with the law, a read from an actual doc here would be useful.

    BUT! Chauvin can't dodge his responsibility for telling whichever other cop suggested they put Floyd on his side to leave his where he was. Also, I cannot for the life of me understand the purpose of maintaining a restraint hold for that long. They had four cops. Pick him up and shove him in and sit with him in the Explorer on the passenger side of the back if needed. Finally, where in the HELL was command during this. It seems like four cops tied up that long on a call should have had at least a sergeant check in on things.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Christiansen View Post
    And every lifelong criminal cries about police brutality during an arrest, so that part is not only irrelevant, but proof that he COULD breathe.
    In this case, not only the suspect being arrested, but the bystanders as well had a hand in the commentary. As others here have noted, if you can talk, you can breathe. The 2nd medical examiner (for hire) Baden seems to think you can't. My own personal experience on applying a choke or strangle and having one put on me indicates otherwise. Same with the other people I trained with in the dojo I was part of in California.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Christiansen View Post
    Cop was wrong, but people are just being stupid and greedy because they want to sacrifice someone to the rioters.
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_B View Post
    Minneapolis police rendered 44 people unconscious with neck restraints since 2015 | kare11.com

    They’re all going to walk because the neck asphyxiation method Chauvin used wasn’t banned by MPD despite most police precincts having done so. The article above states 244 people detained or arrested by MPD had this used on them since 2015 and 44 blacked out.

    So, the expectation, in my opinion, of all 4 cops, was that George Floyd was going to sit there complaining of not being able to breathe and he’d eventually just black out - like all the others.

    The line of “intent to kill” will obviously be blurred by the lawyers and all that is required to be not guilty is reasonable doubt.

    It doesn’t make any of them lesser pieces of shit, but there is most likely a legal avenue rooted in “standard operating procedure” that will void them of the notion of intent.
    And then there's this. If Chauvin was following his training, the training provided by his department, it spreads the blame to the highest level of command and the training that was approved by command.

  9. #3689
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    And maybe death was the intent, but how do you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt?
    .
    True that.

    but on a related note, i believe the angle they are going for is to prove that the officer was attempting to commit assault when he caused the death of floyd. Which would satisfy this criteria:

    (1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

    But I’m not a lawyer. Somebody fact check this

  10. #3690
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    The knee on the neck proves intent to kill because the neck is an area of the body everyone knows contains vital structures, and that pressure on it can kill a person, particularly a person who’s saying they can’t breathe. The fact he could summon enough breath to utter those words means he was saying “I can’t breathe normally,” disproving the ridiculous idea he was somehow “faking” his inability to breathe.

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