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  1. #3741
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    Just so it doesn't get lost, the Minneapolis trigger for this latest disaster was not Racism, but Racism is so deliciously useful.

    COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  2. #3742
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderFun View Post
    There's a lot of unpack really. You seem to have a lot of views that I guess could be called "race realism", though I'm not sure how much and to what degree. I'm not gonna get into trying to debate that, that is a topic that could be gone into at length and potentially derail the current topic. I do think there is a glossing over of accountability for people rioting. I feel like mainstream right and left are fighting over whether these riots are the fault of Antifa or "white supremacist infiltrators" respectively, when really the blame should be placed at the feet of everyone rioting. There is a sub-culture that exists in these "black communities" that is absolutely racially militant, nurtures crime, and fosters absolute lack of accountability. I don't think it's irredeemably rooted in something biological, as there are black people who break free of it, or at least struggle to, and chalking it up to biology is just absolving these people of responsibility from a different direction. I think the existence of this sub-culture is at least partially the fault of white people on the outside trying to figure out how they can "fix" conditions in these communities, and thus pinpointing potential causes that they can address that have nothing to do with holding people personally accountable for their own actions. This is why over the years the excuses made for this sub-culture have become more and more complex. It's evolved from economic disadvantage to a phantom "systemic racism" that no one can really tangibly point to. But the soil it thrives in is entirely contained in these communities, and I think they need to clean their own house, and more importantly, I think they are capable if enough people decide to actually try.

    That's not to say there isn't a legitimate issue here being protested. Of course there is. Only the most stubborn, hard-line types won't acknowledge it. It's not a new problem. It is one that came right along with the first inception of law enforcement. It is NOT a racial issue, and framing it as one ensures it'll never truly be solved. White people on average may have it impact them less, because they tend to have less run-ins with police on average. But it does happen. And the results aren't any less egregious. Just go back in time and ask Daniel Shaver right before he was gunned down by a psycho with "you're fucked" painted on his gun while begging for his life. Be sure to let him know the cop who's about to kill him is going to not only receive no criminal punishment, but a silly medical retirement package for supposed PTSD caused by the event, even though he now still has another job while collecting that $2,500 a month pension.

    The problem, despite what politicians and protesters alike like to tell us, isn't that we "need to listen". We know what the problem is, we know it exists, and we all want it fixed. The problem is that the politicians will do fuck all to push to really address it. The only "solutions" anyone is putting forward is to defund or disband the police forces under their control. Of course, let's make that budget you've fucked up royally easier to balance, state government. It's not like the policing vacuum won't be filled by organized crime or citizen organized militias anyways, and it's not like those alternatives aren't going to be even HARDER to keep in check than police (without police, who even would?). This is all just deflection. We don't need to listen, politicians. YOU need to roll up your sleeves and get to work. Not join protests. People protest because they CAN'T directly change things. If you are an elected official, YOU can. Politicians protesting is like a guy with an 800 pound deadlift complaining pickle jars are too hard to open.
    Incredibly insightful and interesting post, Commander.
    Thanks for taking the time to type it up and share your analysis with us! 🙏🏻👌🏻

  3. #3743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Laureys View Post
    Incredibly insightful and interesting post, Commander.
    Thanks for taking the time to type it up and share your analysis with us! ��������
    Eh, I'm just an unemployed overthinker with too much time on his hands. Another thing I've been thinking:

    There is a group of people, and among this group, there are absolutely criminals. These criminals often get to continue to operate as criminals because this group has a tendency to work to keep other members of the group from being punished for committing any crimes. There ARE people in this group who would rather this not be the case, but do not know how to get this to change on their own. People not part of this group are generally very nervous and on edge when members of this group are around.

    Tell me, did I just describe police departments, or "black communities"?

  4. #3744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Look at this: LA Mayor Slashes LAPD Budget As Calls To ‘Defund Police’ Slowly Pick Up Steam

    How exactly does this work? It's like Escape From New York was a model for these morons.
    Since a couple people have mentioned this, I figured its time to weight in. This a totally symbolic 'cut' that won't have any effect at all. The budget of the LAPD from the city is $2 Billion. $150 million less means minus one or two armored tanks that they only ever use in SWAT training and that's it. The story behind the headline is that the dumbass chief of police made some really stupid remarks in a live zoom call that the mayor had to cover up for. The mayor and chief Moore have been buddies their whole lives. Garcetti did this 'budget cut' to save Moore's job, and that's it:

    No stranger to deft power plays, Garcetti’s announcement Wednesday of the cuts to the LAPD’s massive budget clearly reflects some backroom realpolitik that allowed Moore to keep his job and Garcetti to rein him and the department in, at least on the bottom line.
    Realpolitik at its finest, don't get it confused for anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Just so it doesn't get lost, the Minneapolis trigger for this latest disaster was not Racism, but Racism is so deliciously useful.

    COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events
    To me this is the most disheartening aspect of the whole situation. An economic disaster, a failure to even consider any sort of future economic 'plans' (that would be Communist, after all, and we simply can't have that...), has been obfuscated under the guise of race relations. Yes, black lives matter and yes, shitty cops are rampant but, let's not lose the forest for the trees here; the only reason the death of George Floyd is an issue at all is because half of the american workforce is unemployed. Were this not the current reality, Flyod would be another Eric Gardner, Ahmed Aubrey (there's an interesting backstory here. He died in February. His case got no traction at all for two months until a local reporter contacted a colleague at the NYT), Breonna Taylor, etc, as shitty as that fact is. What I'd really like the country to grasp is that jobs matter.

  5. #3745
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    A funny thing for me, is I've long have had issues with how the police function, but with the way the leadership of so many cities are giving the police impossible missions and then throwing them under the bus when things don't work out so good, has me starting to feel sympathy for them.

    Don't call a curfew, tell the police to enforce it, and then criticize them for doing so, while painting the curfew violators as victims of police excesses.

  6. #3746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    The left tells us they can explain away the disparities between the races within the prism of its Marxist "victim" and "oppressor" narrative. They tell us the black people are simply the victims of systemic racism, and all of the European traditions, values and ideals responsible for the creation of America are, in fact, just an expression of white supremacy.
    On your first point, the master/slave dialectic is Nietzsche's idea--not Marx's. Nietzsche was rabidly (he literally became rabid in later life due to syphilis) apolitical and Marx was not a fan of his in the least. For a man who so comfortably throws around the word, "Marxist" you are incredibly ignorant about the man and his ideas.

    On the later point, you do understand that when these ideals were cultivated, people other than white Europeans literally did not exist to any meaningful extent within European borders, right? White people, quite literally, ruled supreme during the formation of liberal democracy as an ideal, so saying that these foundations are "just an expression of white supremacy" is a fairly straight-forward statement of fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    America isn't currently on fire because of Marxism, or Antifa, or the left, but it is on fire because America's own liberal ontology is based on the lie of egalitarianism. Biological reality is visiting us.
    You've lost me completely here. The biological reality is that Americans are stronger than Europeans and natives of 'the Isles'. Does this mean our rights are more important than yours and your entire argument is null and void?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    At this point it seems impossible to view America as anything other than a cautionary tale.
    I don't disagree with this sentiment in principle but its an empty cipher in the context of your argument. What country, historically speaking, cannot be viewed as anything other than a cautionary tale?

  7. #3747
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    The accusation of racism is functionally censorship. He wrote another post calling me a racist. I censored him.
    It's almost like the one thing that the "We need an honest discussion about race!" zombies don't want is an honest discussion about race.

    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderFun View Post
    I don't think it's irredeemably rooted in something biological, as there are black people who break free of it, or at least struggle to, and chalking it up to biology is just absolving these people of responsibility from a different direction.
    I think you're misunderstanding how biology works in regards to passing on genes and gene expression once those genes are passed on.

    Everything is based upon a range both within a group and within an individual. Within a group you will always have people at the tails of every trait. And within a person you will have upper and lower bounds that can be reached with the raw "talent", but that doesn't mean that someone is "irredeemably" doomed to the bottom or top of that.

    So people who "break free of it" will always exist. The degree to which a group can or any individual within that group can certainly has a biological factor.

    The trend of materialistic determinism along the lines of a Sam Harris drives many people away from even looking at the available info ranging from from IQ tests to history of cultures around the world to crime stats to their own personal "field research" because they fear that moral character would be out of reach for some, which goes entirely against the liberal egalitarian instinct of white people around the world (other racial groups actually have zero issue with dooming certain races to failure based upon race alone, which kinda makes a fellow think.).

    I think that character and culture have too many moving parts to decide what is nature and what is nurture, but it is both amusing and frustrating to see that the claim that race is either not a thing at all or is an irrelevant thing by any worthwhile metric because it goes against what amounts to a religious belief held by a crowd that wears their contempt for religion like a merit badge.

  8. #3748
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Christiansen View Post
    I think that character and culture have too many moving parts to decide what is nature and what is nurture, but it is both amusing and frustrating to see that the claim that race is either not a thing at all or is an irrelevant thing by any worthwhile metric because it goes against what amounts to a religious belief held by a crowd that wears their contempt for religion like a merit badge.
    Clarify this for me, George. We have spent the last week listening to how race is the ONLY thing we are supposed to think about (thus replacing the virus). Cop Shit morphed into Racism so fast you couldn't see it happen.

    And this may be the most condensed version of the problem I've seen on video. https://twitter.com/i/status/1268580569430048768 Count the problems here. I'll bet Karen's car didn't have BLM scratched into the paint.

    And Laureys: Muntz is gone. Stop posting to him.

  9. #3749
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderFun View Post
    Another thing I've been thinking:

    There is a group of people, and among this group, there are absolutely criminals. These criminals often get to continue to operate as criminals because this group has a tendency to work to keep other members of the group from being punished for committing any crimes. There ARE people in this group who would rather this not be the case, but do not know how to get this to change on their own. People not part of this group are generally very nervous and on edge when members of this group are around.

    Tell me, did I just describe police departments, or "black communities"?
    This is quite a good thought experiment. I have stolen and shared it.

    I'll cut you in on anything I make off of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Ebner View Post
    On your first point, the master/slave dialectic is Nietzsche's idea--not Marx's. Nietzsche was rabidly (he literally became rabid in later life due to syphilis) apolitical and Marx was not a fan of his in the least. For a man who so comfortably throws around the word, "Marxist" you are incredibly ignorant about the man and his ideas.

    On the later point, you do understand that when these ideals were cultivated, people other than white Europeans literally did not exist to any meaningful extent within European borders, right? White people, quite literally, ruled supreme during the formation of liberal democracy as an ideal, so saying that these foundations are "just an expression of white supremacy" is a fairly straight-forward statement of fact.
    Both of these claims are ridiculously misleading.

    The master/slave dialectic bears no meaningful difference to the oppressed/oppressor one when applied politically and the latter is the driving narrative for pretty much all Marxist thought today, regardless if Marx thought it himself, which he did.

    When every public voice that calls themselves a Marxist runs with something it is really nothing more than a no true Marxist argument to claim, rightly or wrongly, that Marx didn't endorse the idea. At some point in history we'd have to at least admit that Marxism parted ways with Marx himself.

    To your second point: You do not have white supremacy in any way that it is meant today or in this discussion simply by the absence of nonwhite contributions in Western thought during that point of history. And beyond that you didn't even have a lack of nonwhite voices as that era held up and synthesized plenty of nonwhite sourced ideas into their thinking and society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Clarify this for me, George. We have spent the last week listening to how race is the ONLY thing we are supposed to think about (thus replacing the virus). Cop Shit morphed into Racism so fast you couldn't see it happen.
    I meant not a thing in the sense that being of a certain race cannot come with biological differences that influence how one may behave or achieve.

    The way race is everything now is simply as an identifier. Blacks and whites and anyone else are exactly the same in any meaningful biological way ie liberal egalitarianism. There is no natural difference. BUT whites are singularly deluded and guilty based upon a nurtured difference of the history they have allegedly lived.

    So all whites are racists according to the Leftist revisionist, not because they were born that way, but because they were taught that way by a history of privilege.

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    Healthcare workers decided the virus isn't dangerous anymore after calling 1st amendment protesters murderers.

    YouTube "And Then Healthcare Workers Started Cheering Protesters | The Surest Sign We Were Conned"

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