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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #3801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Ebner View Post
    On the first part, I think we just disagree with what elected leaders should and shouldn't be doing with the time we pay them for, and that's OK. "Symbolic gestures" are not something I ever want to see a politician waste his time on, especially when he's not actively campaigning (granted, they do it all the time). Call me old fashioned, but I expect concrete results, or active work towards those results, and could care less about symbolic anything from people we appoint, to you know, get shit done.
    Symbolism is another means of communication. It is good for politicians to communicate.

    We have concrete results from Trump.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Ebner View Post
    On the latter point, I guess its the 'flawed past' part that hangs a lot of people up. If this were a man who attended services regularly, who paid any kind of lip service, at the very least, to his Presbyterian background (his own former church had to clarify that he hasn't been an active member since his dad died in 1993), I guess the gesture would be easier to understand? What if he were visiting a mosque or a temple instead? That would pretty clearly be a 'stunt', right? To a non-religious, non-christian person like myself, a Presbyterian visiting an Episcopal church to take a photo outside is not that different. It just seems like a very strange time to do that sort of thing which, for me anyway, makes its hard to disagree with those sympathetic newscasters. Using his personal security force to forcibly move people to go take a photo in front of a building is just not a good look, no matter what the timing or circumstances.
    It would not be easier to understand. I took his gesture as "here is an objective standard I appeal to, regardless of myself". It is a stronger gesture that way, for everybody, not just 'insiders' ("good" Christians). Western culture owes a lot to the Bible.

    He could've stood in front of a mosque or temple, without a bible, and appealed to commonalities in monotheism in both, or particularly to the Jews as elders in the faith etc. That wouldn't have been a stunt. But that would've been much more subtle messaging, without the benefit of gestures there that would translate through imagery. There'd be no symbolism to cut through the noise on the street and in the imagery, which is what the Bible did in front of the church (anyway, imagine doing that in front of a mosque or temple).

    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Ebner View Post

    Also, you're the only person I've ever heard describe the president as humble. He puts his name, in huge letters, on everything he touches. I also don't hate the guy, but I would never accuse him of being humble.
    Humility and discretion are not the same thing. I do not care that he promotes himself. I suppose that's how he makes lots of money (it is not evil). But he appears to know himself pretty well, which is humility.


    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Ebner View Post

    Ah, thank you very much for this explanation. I don't consume enough political punditry to be able to identify these sort of positions.

    To answer your question, I disagree with both, but more so with his particular rendition. Calling wokeness a cult is just plain sloppy use of language. It meets none of the criteria for a cult (who is the leader? what freedoms do members have to give up? to whom do they give their belongings? what uniforms are they forced to wear? what fringe religious beliefs unites members? etc. etc.). This is akin to when the left pundits call Trump a fascist. That's simply unjustifiably hyperbolic and patently absurd. Does this mean I'm a fan of virtue signaling, wokeness, 'allyness', or whatever else people do to stack up cultural clout? Absolutely not. In fact I hate it, in all forms. I've damn near come to blows with people over my refusal to wear a mask (virtue signaling at its finest) but comparing mask-wearers to a cult is not something that ever crossed my mind. I certainly think many of them are fanatical and delusional, but that alone does not merit accusations of cultish behavior.
    Didn't intend pedantry.

    It's nothing like calling Trump a fascist. We're not living in a dictatorship and opposition is not suppressed.

    We are living in a woke-infused culture. And that wokeness has infused even the most technical companies with cult-like measures. There are the various substance-less trainings; there is the acceptable patter and language. Deviations from this can have serious monetary consequences.

    Nonetheless, probably there is hyperbole in calling wokeness a cult

  2. #3802
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrowdisciple View Post
    In the "Milgram Experiments" about 65% of people (teachers) administered what they believed to be near-fatal electric shocks to people ("learners") who made minor mistakes in answering questions, no matter how loudly the learners screamed or appeared to be suffering -- as long as a perceived authority figure told the teachers the shocks were "essential." The studies have been replicated, and at least one had an added finding that White teachers shocked Black learners to the maximum more often than they shocked white learners the same way.

    One wonders if a similar percentage of police doesn't behave like the teachers in the study, and whether that gives a clue to what happened in Minneapolis.
    There's a lot of criticism of how legit Milgram's experiment was, same with the "Standford Prison Experiment" that demonstrated similar things and is often similarly brought up at times like this. Here's an interesting one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald Boggs View Post
    Not intending to excuse the cop's actions, but it turns out George Floyd has a criminal history, including one that involved him forcing his way into the home of a pregnant woman and threatening to shoot her in the belly if she didn't give him all her money and valuables. As has been mentioned, the cop possibly knew Floyd and if he did, he knew what kind of man he was dealing with and didn't care if his arrest was a little harsh.
    We all know George Floyd was human trash, a drug addict and was dangerous to the community. Most of us (including the pious, virtue-signalling crowd) just hope people like Floyd die quickly, far away and out of sight. The cop probably knew his history. But, it is a terrible assault on liberty in general if the cop gets to play Judge Dredd and summarily execute him.

    As Yuri Bezmenov said, our support of liberty in this country opens us up to subversion. But, without our liberties, we are not much better than the Marxists. We can counter subversion by strongly supporting nationalism.

    No matter how careful or submissive you are, you will be in danger. You will be censored. Your character will be assassinated. You will be threatened. You will be harrassed. You will be called a racist. Get used to it.

  4. #3804
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    Marx was complex and clearly much, much more than just an economist. "Just an economist" would clearly not have so greatly influenced and set the philosophical trajectory for, to the degree his work did, people like Gramsci, and the aforementioned Germans, and The Frankfurt School, critical theory and intersectionality. He has informed everything about the left today.
    Fair point. He was occasionally more than an economist (I should have said primarily an economist); he was the European correspondent for the New York Herald for many years and, especially as a younger scholar, he dabbled in history. Elements of his writing today would be considered social theory, but, by the standards of his day, everything he wrote regarding the masses or class struggle fit more or less comfortably under the heading of political economy (what they called economics back then), even though Marx was the first one to actually discuss those two issues.

    However, I disagree completely that "just an economist" cannot have such a massive influence. The influence of Friedrich Hayek (he's both Milton and Thomas Friedmans' main squeeze) on today's economic and social order far exceeds any of the lingering influence that Marx has, or ever had, for that matter.

    I'd also query the idea that he's informed everything about the left today. He has far more critics on the left than right (Marx never wrote about Race, Privilege, Women, Intersectionality, Whiteness, etc. etc., which makes him, by default, as you've pointed out "part of the problem" and the root of all evil according to large swaths of the contemporary left), after all. You know how many times I heard radical feminists and others accuse Marx (and Hegel) of being sexist and racist in grad school? Never mind both of them were long dead before the suffrage movement even started--they need to be held accountable for the fact that they couldn't see the future and predict that gender and race would be important issues in 21st century academia, therefore they're both sexist pigs who we should write off entirely and not bother even reading.

    In fact, nearly every left scholar since the Frankfurt School has made a career out of denouncing or dismissing Marx along these lines: Foucault, Derrida, Delueze, Hardt, Negri, etc. etc. etc ad nausem. This is partly due to the economic shifts that have moved the economy away from production and toward services in recent decades, and partly due to the "issues" outlined above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    These increasingly complicated explanations for why our social problems can only be viewed through this prism of the "victim" and "oppressor" narrative, or as with intersectionality, how we are living at the intersections of overlapping, mindbogglingly tangled systems of "privilege" and "oppression" - have been promulgated and developed with one aim in mind: burn it all fucking down. It has nothing to do with creating an egalitarian utopia of equality and peace.

    Its job is to methodically vilify, then justify for the eradication and replacement of, all of the European traditions, norms and values which are responsible for the West in general.
    This actually makes a lot of sense. I can see how revolution can be misinterpreted to mean 'burn it all down' in the wrong hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    To be honest, at this moment and with the problems we have, nobody gives a shit about whether Marx said this, or Nietzsche said that, or whatever. I don't think free market capitalism is the realistic answer to fixing the problems we face today, either, by the way.
    Again, fair point to you, good sir. And to the latter point, we agree completley!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    You have a highly technical, nuanced understanding of these ideas, and that is all well and good, but the arguments that the left have been permitted to make (due to liberal egalitarianism, and the way it limits the right's ability to counter them-) in popular culture and mainstream politics, for decades, has got us to this place of rioting and looting. Now questioning the police's existence, for God's sake.
    You've totally lost me with how liberal egalitarianism is responsible for rioting and looting. In any case, I would disagree with this argument entirely. 20% unemployment is the cause of rioting and looting, full stop.

    As far as police go, we managed to get along perfectly fine without them for 99.9% of human history. Is it because the bobbies were the first municipal police force in the world that you are so attached to them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    Indeed we did! Harsh but fair, harsh but fair. The other week I saw a jaw-dropping clip of an English (ethnically) travel vlogger walking through a street in a poor area somewhere in India, filming with his go-pro as he went. This random middle-aged Indian guy walked by, asked if he was English, beamed a big smile and exclaimed "Come back, please, and rule us again! Sort this mess out!". He grabbed his hands and shook them vigorously. Hilarious! The English bloke just laughed awkwardly, slipped out of his grip and walked away as fast as humanly possible. Couldn't believe it.
    DUDE, I love this guy! Bald and Bankrupt is his YouTube channel. How this man speaks every language on the planet is mind blowing. By far your best export of the 22nd century.



    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    I have personally seen lots of footage circulating on social media, and some news articles, which show the opposite of what you say. I'll post some links tomorrow. It's not pleasant viewing, though. When (not if) my city is burning from all this, I will be begging for the state's jack-booted thuggery, and wondering if feeling this way is accidental.
    Its entirely possible that your media is reporting things our media isn't, as frequently is the case. I'm curious to see what you're seeing that we're not.

    I should have been more specific about the thuggery--I was referring to incidents like the 75 year old man they nearly killed in Buffalo, the college kids they tased and pulled out of the car for no reason at all in Atlanta, the kid who lost an eye to a 'non-leathal' round in Dallas (a few people got shot in the face with these. aiming for the head is strictly against policy with non-lethal rounds). Trust me, you don't want this type of thuggery from your police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post
    Just googled the Met Police's budget and it's 4.12 billion USD.
    I find this hard to believe. They don't even carry guns. WTH are they spending all that money on?

  5. #3805
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    It's good to see that not all hope is lost in Europe, specifically Hungary.



    The riots are discussed 10:25

    The first part of the video is about social media censorship. It's interesting how he ties the two together.

    Turns out, he lifts. Not suprising, eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VNV View Post
    Follow Ransom’s adventures in the Space Trilogy = yes
    May I add that aside from the sci-fi aspects of that trilogy (which I found really odd and seemingly laced with LSD-like imagery), his portrayal of the state to which society and culture had devolved into newspeak and edgy political flavor of the month eerily prefigured the current state of affairs. Both in the UK as our Cousins across the Pond tell us, and in the Good Old U S of A. I found that aspect of the trilogy ridiculous and off putting when I first read them in the 70's too, thinking no way could this happen. But Lewis was prophetic in his vision of things to come.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMueller View Post
    I've little doubt that the media, even Fox, did not represent this event dispassionately. But it takes a remarkable naivete or a fundamental misunderstanding of Trump's character disorder to reach this interpretation.
    Well, you know him better than I do, so we'll go with your interpretation.

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    During the key election year of 1992, we had the LA Riots which prompted a national conversation about race. Again, during the 2008 election, candidate Obama addressed the nation on race. Now, in another pivotal election year, riots have forced America to again talk about race.

    As children of the 60s, we were indoctrinated with some of the teachings of MLK. One of those teachings embraced by many Americans was "colorblindness". It was a goal.
    The other perspective at the time was that of James H Cone. Cone & MLK disagreed on key things, and Cone lost the battle at the time.

    Today, the young people are indoctrinated with James H Cone's perspective. And THIS is has created a gap between our generations. How do we bridge this gap in order to move forward?

    For your consideration, I present the great Dr Voddie Baucham about "Ethnic Gnosticism". At 50 minutes, it is an investment. In the least, watch the first 5 minutes, and then skip to 27 minutes and listen as long as you get something from it.

    My family has watched this "sermon" twice. You do NOT need to be a Christian to benefit from Dr Bauchan's perspective:

    Dr Voddie Baucham: Ethnic Gnosticism

    This talk is for every person of every skin color.

    If I were President Trump, instead of addressing the nation on "race", I would introduce Dr Baucham and step aside.

  9. #3809
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMueller View Post
    I've little doubt that the media, even Fox, did not represent this event dispassionately. But it takes a remarkable naivete or a fundamental misunderstanding of Trump's character disorder to reach this interpretation.
    Perhaps naive. Perhaps that allows me to be unbiased. I barely knew of Trump before the election, nor was in the least interested in him.

    I think my interpretation is accurate. However, I’m prepared for “it” to all be a lie. We’ll see.

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    Friday Headline:"Conspiracy theories and racist memes: How a dozen Texas GOP county chairs caused turmoil within the party." A dozen Texas GOP chairs share racist or anti-Semitic posts | The Texas Tribune

    One scratches one's head and wonders who, exactly, is making a race issue out of the George Floyd case? Of course, a sprinkling of anti-semitism is frequently a spice for the following kind of morsel: "Facebook posts by Texas Agriculture Commissioner Sid Miller included an image of (Jewish billionaire) George Soros with the text “start the race war.”

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