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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #4651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yngvi View Post
    Clinton's last-second attempts to change the election results are irrelevant.

    If you read the constitution and the writings of the founding fathers, it is clear from either source that electors are free to cast their vote as they see fit. The primary idea behind it was that the average voter does not have the intellectual ability, time or personal access to the presidential candidates required to make an informed decision. The secondary ideas were to prevent voter fraud and further provide a balance of power that prevents mob tyranny.

    The current ruling has wide-reaching implications; 7/9 justices were of the opinion that states can punish electors simply because the constitution does no explicitly forbid it. We now have 7/9 justices who have built a precedent in supreme court opinion that allows states to force electors to vote a certain way. If that same opinion is applied to the state pacts that award all electors to the winner of the national popular vote, we have just effectively abolished the electoral college.

    Our "federalist" judges are smart enough to know where this is going, so why would they comply with this ruling? I am speculating that it is the for the same reason all of our republican leaders allow themselves to be bullied into submission; They think if they can just appease their enemies enough, their enemies will stop attacking. Our limp-wristed conservative representatives and constitutionalist judges are out of touch with reality. They don't seem to realize their opponents don't give a damn about upholding the constitution.

    They hope that if they appease the leftists by weakening the electoral college now, that maybe, just maybe, the leftists won't demand a full tear down of the electoral college if they win the 2020 elections.

    This ruling is a grave assault on the foundations of our country.
    It's possible the conservative justices are limp-wristed and submissive, but I'm of the opinion that they know exactly what they're doing. A person doesn't become a member of one of the highest branches of government in the world by operating off a principle of appeasement.

    The founding fathers didn't have a very high regard for a naked democracy, which is why they put so many checks in place to keep mob rule from happening. Only one half of one branch of government was ever supposed to be elected by popular vote. The fact that the Senate and soon the President will be elected by popular vote means we're basically one step away from mob rule.

    The only consolation I see is that rule by mob rarely lasts. Someone will inevitably put together a coordinated resistance and seize power. It happened in ancient Israel, it happened in Greece, it happened in Rome, it happened in Japan, it happens pretty much every time straight democracy is tried.

    Based on the way the wind is blowing, I think it's safe to say that the Constitution is essentially dead. It will continue to be held up and massaged to say whatever the powers-that-be want it to say, as a way to lend some legitimacy to their rule, but the document's original intent is long gone.

    I'm hopeful that Trump and his administration can turn things around, and if he wins in November it's certainly a possibility, but if he loses I think it's fair to say that we'll be living in New America.

  2. #4652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollis View Post
    In general, the disrespect on this thread for the hundreds of thousands of citizens dealing with this virus as a pure health matter, the healthcare workers saving lives on overnight shifts, and the impact this has on seniors, even the ones that don’t get it, but fear for their lives, is highly offensive.
    The disrespect elected and unelected officials for several hundred million Americans' ability to provide for themselves and their families is also highly offensive.

    Until the spread is under control, no one gets their economy back. The majority of people aren't going to participate because they have real concern. A minority that disagrees going on with their business isn't going to make a dent; seems like we already have the case for that in AZ, TX, FL. Why the solution to that isn't imploring a national response, which has clearly worked in other countries, is odd.
    Like the national response of Sweden, which was to do essentially nothing, which has put them squarely in the middle of the pack, and also means that they are not experiencing the dreaded "second wave"?

    I'm not sure where you live, but I think you're grossly overestimating the people who care about Covid-19 anymore. I talk to a lot of people coming in and out of my workplace, and 9/10 of them are sick-to-death of this BS. One guy at my gym wears a mask when I'm there, but no one else does. The personal trainers and the guys behind the desk aren't even offering the token gesture of wearing one around their chin anymore.

    50% of people in the grocery store were not wearing when I was there on Sunday. The only people I've ran into who seemed scared of the virus are morbidly obese women and people that are 85+ years of age.

    I'm not in a rural location, I live in a suburb of Columbus, OH. I'm not sure what the sentiment is in the highly urban and affluent downtown areas, but pretty much everywhere people have just about had it with Covid-19.

    Let's not forget there's a vector between death and survival. Many survivors have been sick for 2-3 months, lung transplants, amputations, and some that survive for 2 months will die.
    A couple of outliers is no reason to shut down a state's economy and mandate that everyone wears the 21st century version of a gold star over their mouth. Prior health conditions have been a factor in pretty much every horror story.

    Almost everyone who gets this virus will recover with no negative side-effects, if they even show symptoms at all. My brother got it and went for a 10-mile run while he was showing symptoms. His wife, who sleeps in the same bed as he does, tested positive and showed 0 symptoms. My parents and sibling, whom he sees daily, have still not tested positive.


    This thread has been something else for the past couple weeks. Particularly watching you all eat your own. It is mildly encouraging that some have stood up to the outright racism here.
    This is only true if "ideas I don't like"="racism"

    Pay no attention that USA has 4% of world population but 25% of both deaths and cases—that's where the real anger should be directed. There's no national plan to address any of this, Americans are now embarrassingly banned from traveling to most Western nations of consequence (who are ending this pandemic), and we'll continue to suffer this crap while everyone else is wrapping it up, having pity on us(a). Sports are back in Europe.
    Adjusted for the amount of tests administered, throw in blatant number fudging that testing authorities have done, and the US is on par with every single other country. Lockdowns, masks, etc have had no effect on the spread of Covid-19 except to just delay the inevitable reality that everyone in the world will be exposed to the virus unless they choose to live in a bubble for the next several years.

    A national response wasn't warranted because there was nothing the national government could have done to stop the spread of this, other than for Trump to assume power Kim Jong Un style and lock every single resident in their home under pain of death.

    Europe is banning travel because it's politically expedient, not because it's actually useful.

    The fact that people continue to parrot garbage they heard on CNN months ago and refuse to do any of their own research or adjust their thinking to fit reality is why I know that the madness will continue until at least November 4.

  3. #4653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Berry View Post
    More importantly, you are not responsible for my health and whether or not I get sick.
    I'm trying to make sure I understand you. Are you saying that If I know I'm sick and contagious (let's make this straightforward) I'm under no ethical obligation whatsoever to limit others exposure when possible?

  4. #4654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollis View Post
    75% false positive for the basic test, no, that is not true. The bottomless credulity you all have for anonymous messageboard posts is something though.
    What is interesting here is your condescending attitude when someone asks, "Is that true?"

    You expect me to trust you on the anonymous message board instead? I know....I will go hide in my basement until everyone wears a mask or dies. 6 feet apart or 6 feet under.

    Thank you for taking your time and making those of us in the minority see the way. Your benevolence and magnanimity is now on display for all to see. We are in your debt.

    Teach me to ask if a thing is, in fact, true.

    sb

  5. #4655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_B View Post
    I’m sure you’re aware of this, but you’re seeing the rare cases, the abnormal cases, the sad cases, precisely because you work in a hospital.

    Years ago I was deployed to Iraq with some several hundred thousand other military folks. I was not on the front lines. I never even left the base. That said, It was in a bad place. They mortared us quite often. But, each night I slept easily because they were bad shots and the base was huge. I figured that if one landed in my bed I wouldn’t know it and the odds were so abysmal then I was just due for expiration.

    Day and night, medical helicopters were flying into the base. We had one of the only Class (3?) trauma units in theatre. One day I woke up and for no reason whatsoever my elbow was the size of a tennis ball, and real red and warm. The flight doc took me to the ER there as they had X-rays and other equipment he didn’t readily have.

    As we walked the halls of this place, my perspective changed. I got to see some of the people whose luck didn’t turn out so well. It frightened me, but then I also realized that housed here was every unfortunate bastard from all the bases in Iraq in one place. Somewhere deep down I still understood that these were the 1% and that the odds were still overwhelmingly in my favor.

    It doesn’t lessen my empathy for those guys, but it allowed me to carry forward and recognize that there was no reason to panic. I’m sure if you asked the doctors, the wounded, and the killed, they’d have told you the war was atrocious. For the rest of us, we had to go about our lives without panic and fear lest we make things 1000 times worse.
    It is true that docs and hospital workers see the more severe and outliers among the covid cases. Remember, though, that they also only see the severe outliers among flu cases, and have done so for years. The vast majority of flu cases do not result in hospitalizations. It is a fact that everyone who cares for sick people will tell you that being sick with covid is way worse than being sick with flu. The people who say covid is "basically like a flu" are looking at numbers, graphs, and charts, not taking care of covid and flu patients. Statistically it may look like a bad flu year, but qualitatively you would much prefer to be sick with flu than with covid.

  6. #4656
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFord View Post
    Because I've seen this exact event happen in at least three patients that I know by name, each of which resulted in death. My assumption is that if this was an unusually rare occurrence I wouldn't have seen three cases of this in my own limited experience. Not going to go into detail about them. You can trust me or not.

    BTW, every Death Certificate that -I've signed where the patient died of COVID-19, died of COVID-19. This has also been true of my colleagues. I heard a ridiculous statement (second hand) on the Joe Rogan Podcast made by a physician that said that if a person was eaten by a shark but tested positive for SARS CoV 2, his COD would be listed as COVID-19.

    Anyone who believes that such misclassifications are COMMON ENOUGH TO SUBSTANTIALLY DRAMATICALLY ALTER COVID-19 DEATH STATISTICS needs better proof.

    Remember that in a bad flu year, the impetus to misclassify other causes of death to influenza are most likely equally likely. SOMETHING is killing my patients that is accompanied by cough, fever, certain hematologic changes, time frame consistent with COVID-19 and no other obvious explanation. We're way past the standard flu season. If there is misclassification of a significant percentage of the 130K+ deaths attributed to COVID-19, I wonder if we're having a great year for other pulmonary diseases (as entered on DCs)? Perhaps the numbers are enough to lower the huge numbers of deaths do to garden variety bacterial pneumonia or COPD but still...

    I know of a healthy physician colleague in the ICU with multi-organ failure on a vent and hemodialysis due to COVID-19 age 52 with no premorbid conditions. The only time I've seen this in my entire career due to a hospital-acquired infection was in the third world. I was a professor at UCLA working at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center on the wards during the H1N1 outbreak. This is not that.

    I believe that MUCH of our policy is wrong regarding this outbreak. I think the media and the talking head medical experts have comported themselves poorly. Much of what Mark said in his response to my earlier posts is CORRECT and I don't disagree with most of it. So yes. There's a better than good chance that I'm not seeing the highway.

    But from what I'm seeing, this is a bad disease and I've NEVER personally seen this level of mortality from an infectious disease (except in the third world) in my life. Admittedly I take care of a frail, elderly population but I have done so for the last 6 years and this is different.

    Too tired to edit this or even reread it. Getting weaker by the day because I can't train as I can't get companies to send me the equipment yet for a home gym. Even when gyms DO open up, I'm terrified of being the index case of an epidemic in the wonderful community of 4 Star Gym in El Segundo, CA so I won't be training there in the near future. I do know that we'll somehow get through this.
    Thank you for the detailed reply. To clarify...

    You said "You can get it from being wheeled by an asymptomatic visitor in the hospital after a brief contact."

    Then: I asked how you knew this to be true and your response was "Because I've seen this exact event happen in at least three patients that I know by name, each of which resulted in death."

    I just want to understand that you, a physician, are saying that you know of 3 people, not infected, that were wheeled by someone who was infected, but asymptomatic. The previous 3 people then became infected and died because they contracted covid from the asymptomatic carrier by which they were wheeled.

    Is that a correct interpretation?

  7. #4657
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    I've had four negative COVID tests. I will likely have quite a few more as requirement for medical procedures. Do I count as one test or four? Does the reporting reflect such obvious procedural errors?

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    Serbia’s dictator president tried to push his luck after getting “re-elected” by trying to enforce another curfew for this weekend. People broke into their Capitol Hill shortly afterwards. It took the cops until early morning to regain the streets. Day two to follow.

  9. #4659
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yngvi View Post
    Clinton's last-second attempts to change the election results are irrelevant.

    If you read the constitution and the writings of the founding fathers, it is clear from either source that electors are free to cast their vote as they see fit. The primary idea behind it was that the average voter does not have the intellectual ability, time or personal access to the presidential candidates required to make an informed decision. The secondary ideas were to prevent voter fraud and further provide a balance of power that prevents mob tyranny.

    The current ruling has wide-reaching implications; 7/9 justices were of the opinion that states can punish electors simply because the constitution does no explicitly forbid it. We now have 7/9 justices who have built a precedent in supreme court opinion that allows states to force electors to vote a certain way. If that same opinion is applied to the state pacts that award all electors to the winner of the national popular vote, we have just effectively abolished the electoral college.

    Our "federalist" judges are smart enough to know where this is going, so why would they comply with this ruling? I am speculating that it is the for the same reason all of our republican leaders allow themselves to be bullied into submission; They think if they can just appease their enemies enough, their enemies will stop attacking. Our limp-wristed conservative representatives and constitutionalist judges are out of touch with reality. They don't seem to realize their opponents don't give a damn about upholding the constitution.

    They hope that if they appease the leftists by weakening the electoral college now, that maybe, just maybe, the leftists won't demand a full tear down of the electoral college if they win the 2020 elections.

    This ruling is a grave assault on the foundations of our country.
    We are simply poles apart on this. In point of fact, I have yet to see any conservative deplore this ruling at all, let alone for the reasons you cite. This decision guts the multi-state compact that has been percolating in entrenched dem controlled states like CA, IL, and others to bypass the Electoral College entirely.

  10. #4660
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Charles View Post
    I've had four negative COVID tests. I will likely have quite a few more as requirement for medical procedures. Do I count as one test or four? Does the reporting reflect such obvious procedural errors?
    My state reports "New Confirmed Cases" among a variety of other data. If you test positive, you will show up in that category once, on the date it occurs, no matter how many times you tested negative. They also report "% of total tests returned positive." Each of your negative tests will be counted toward that ratio, by the date it was tested. If you are positive each time, those positives will count toward the total % positive.

    In other words, if you are reporting tests, each test gets counted once. If you are reporting cases, each case gets counted once.

    What distortion to the reporting do you worry about with your multiple tests?

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