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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #4681
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    • starting strength seminar april 2024
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    [QUOTE=dbm77;1778810][QUOTE=alsbos;1778796]
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Berry View Post

    SURGICAL FACEMASKS not an old T-shirt or piece of cloth. (From the abstract)


    [FONT=Lora][I]


    We're still arguing the merits and minutiae of wearing a mask versus not wearing a mask? Holy Hell this country is so far beyond gone. The warning flares were sent up in March and April, whatever happens from know on to this country the responsibility rests with all the citizens in the country and no one else.
    What is amazing is the number of people here who still think this thread is about wearing masks.

    And when it has veered to that, as a tangent, it’s been about the ineffectiveness of them [in spreading viruses].

    Oh, and who else is responsible for what happens to this country?

  2. #4682
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    @alsbos

    Did you actually read what I wrote or the study?

    Majority of people don't even expel enough virus to be measured....small majority but still. Properly fitted N95 masks protect others, from the folks who MIGHT put out enough virus to be a problem. 100% agree.

    If the store requires the mask, and I really, really, want to go in, then I will have to comply....it is their store. If that is what they are doing to keep business, that is their prerogative. See how that is different than: YOU MUST WEAR MASK ~ the Governor/mayor/alderman or whatever.

    So, friend of mine had leukemia. When she was on chemo and went out...she wore a properly fitted mask. Was that to protect everyone else in the store from catching leukemia? No, that's utterly ridiculous. Guess how much shit I (or anyone else) gave her about wearing a mask. See the difference?

    I don't care if I catch it: "Wear a mask, it protects others."

    I have no symptoms: "Wear a mask, it protects others"

    I tested negative: "Wear a mask, it protects others"

    See how the same answer to each statement really only fits one reason. But, but it protects OTHERS! Sorry, it doesn't hold up.

    The mask thing is hardly (if at all) based on rational application of data, and more based on, "Shut up and do what you are told."

    sb

  3. #4683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Berry View Post
    The mask thing is hardly (if at all) based on rational application of data, and more based on, "Shut up and do what you are told."
    Absolutely. It is a Loyalty Oath.

  4. #4684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotto View Post
    The echo chamber is resounding pretty damn loudly here.
    Doesn't appear to me that you've been following this thread, Scott. This thread is +469 pages long exactly because it is not an echo chamber. Participants continue to disagree with each other and bring in new information and go off on various tangents.

    Also note that unlike E&P there are no threads about using labia to make helicopters or filled with bizarre attacks from former adherents who didn't make the cut as coaches.

    Aside from that, this thread is discussing political actions that have affected lifters and gym owners to directly interfere with strength training and health. It's not Strength Training getting into politics, but interference going the other direction.

  5. #4685
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    I have already once reviewed around six dozen studies with regard to masks and aerosolized respiratory viruses. I had recently begun to review them with the purpose of documenting everything after my position was challenged, but before I could finish the first five I was told I was a bullshit science denier and blocked.

    Now, I am nothing if not a professional layman in many things and a master of nothing, so I am not exceptionally qualified to be an authority in reviewing studies. I am a pretty rigorous skeptic, though. Would those active in this board like to take a more systematic approach to reviewing and aggregating their opinions and understanding?

    Side note: the studies, institutions and researchers involved can be fairly damn incestuous.

  6. #4686
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    Quote Originally Posted by stef View Post
    Doesn't appear to me that you've been following this thread, Scott. This thread is +469 pages long exactly because it is not an echo chamber. Participants continue to disagree with each other and bring in new information and go off on various tangents.

    Also note that unlike E&P there are no threads about using labia to make helicopters or filled with bizarre attacks from former adherents who didn't make the cut as coaches.

    Aside from that, this thread is discussing political actions that have affected lifters and gym owners to directly interfere with strength training and health. It's not Strength Training getting into politics, but interference going the other direction.
    I would add that free, open and honest discussion is welcome in very few places these days. I’m grateful for this forum.

  7. #4687
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Harlin View Post
    I would add that free, open and honest discussion is welcome in very few places these days. I’m grateful for this forum.
    Especially now. Clamping down on arbitrarily-decreed "disagreeable" content has really picked up momentum. The body count of online video creators and social media accounts getting yanked down is staggering.

  8. #4688
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    Rudy Giuliani sits down with Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, MD, Board Certified in Family Medicine, to discuss the protocol he used to achieve a 99.3% survival rate for his COVID19 patients. Dr. Zelenko urges America can continue to reopen and have maximum participation with the fallback of a very effective treatment regimen.

    YouTube

    here is a link to Dr Zelenkos actual study
    COVID-19 Outpatient Study

  9. #4689
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Berry View Post
    @alsbos

    Did you actually read what I wrote or the study?

    Majority of people don't even expel enough virus to be measured....small majority but still. Properly fitted N95 masks protect others, from the folks who MIGHT put out enough virus to be a problem. 100% agree.

    If the store requires the mask, and I really, really, want to go in, then I will have to comply....it is their store. If that is what they are doing to keep business, that is their prerogative. See how that is different than: YOU MUST WEAR MASK ~ the Governor/mayor/alderman or whatever.

    So, friend of mine had leukemia. When she was on chemo and went out...she wore a properly fitted mask. Was that to protect everyone else in the store from catching leukemia? No, that's utterly ridiculous. Guess how much shit I (or anyone else) gave her about wearing a mask. See the difference?

    I don't care if I catch it: "Wear a mask, it protects others."

    I have no symptoms: "Wear a mask, it protects others"

    I tested negative: "Wear a mask, it protects others"

    See how the same answer to each statement really only fits one reason. But, but it protects OTHERS! Sorry, it doesn't hold up.

    The mask thing is hardly (if at all) based on rational application of data, and more based on, "Shut up and do what you are told."

    sb
    As Pence said, if required by the state, you should wear face masks. And as Pence said, from real-world experience they know that face-masks work (at least to some extent). I assume Pence says this due to reviewing a number of different studies. I also assume Pence says this because he's under pressure to improve the business climate in the USA. And as linked below, its believed that a facemask mandate will improve the GDP.

    Face Masks and GDP

    As I'm sure you know, it doesn't take much for a business to go under. My wifes gym lost 30% of their customers over the april-march time frame, and after 20 years the owner just closed it down. He had been running it for 20 years. Just my opinion (well, actually not just mine), but turning the face mask issue into a political one (which is what you are doing) does not make economic sense. As the economist pointed out, facemasks provide the ability (partly scientific, and partly emotional) to avoid closures, loosen restrictions, and give more people confidence. As Rand Paul said in a recent hearing with Fauci 'we need a little optimism'. He didn't say 'we need more bitching about every fucking thing anyone can think of'.

    You could always compromise though. You could wear a mask, but NOT wear a shirt while shopping. This would prevent the spread of covid AND show off your gainz. By the way, why do we, when its hot out, wear a shirt inside of stores? And why are shoes required?

  10. #4690
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Absolutely. It is a Loyalty Oath.
    Unfortunately, for some it's devolved into that. But there's plenty of experimental evidence that even homemade masks can filter out droplets of aerosols. Here's a study that came out a few days ago looking at the filtration efficiency of 32 different materials.

    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c05025

    Many of these materials do a good job capturing materials around 1 micron in size, which is the typical size of water droplets that viruses are bound with, see here for a good explanation of how viruses travel:

    Fact check: N95 filters are not too large to stop COVID-19 particles

    They also do a good job of reducing the range of respiratory jets, which can can travel as far as 12 feet when coughing. These researchers created a really cool visual of droplet range:

    Visualizing the effectiveness of face masks in obstructing respiratory
    jets


    There is a dose response relationship with virus particles and I'd prefer to acquire immunity from the minimum effective dose, a concept starting strength is very familiar with . As some have said here, "let's rip the band aid off", well it'd be nice if the band-aid was small! A very strong innate immune response can lead to "bystander" damage to uninfected tissues.

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