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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #4721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_V View Post
    Unfortunately, for some it's devolved into that. But there's plenty of experimental evidence that even homemade masks can filter out droplets of aerosols. Here's a study that came out a few days ago looking at the filtration efficiency of 32 different materials.

    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c05025

    Many of these materials do a good job capturing materials around 1 micron in size, which is the typical size of water droplets that viruses are bound with, see here for a good explanation of how viruses travel:

    Fact check: N95 filters are not too large to stop COVID-19 particles

    They also do a good job of reducing the range of respiratory jets, which can can travel as far as 12 feet when coughing. These researchers created a really cool visual of droplet range:

    Visualizing the effectiveness of face masks in obstructing respiratory
    jets


    There is a dose response relationship with virus particles and I'd prefer to acquire immunity from the minimum effective dose, a concept starting strength is very familiar with . As some have said here, "let's rip the band aid off", well it'd be nice if the band-aid was small! A very strong innate immune response can lead to "bystander" damage to uninfected tissues.
    Again, in order to assess the validity of a paper, one must read the Methods, the most important part of a scientific paper. It is why many papers/findings are reported without considering the fact that the methods were in-vitro (as these are.) Yes, the data found in these seems valid but by no means does it directly correlate to in-vivo (real life.) Why? Because human respiration is not a linear blast. And respiratory droplets vary in size.

    As for the USA Today article you posted. I may feel compelled to respond when I am done laughing. Its the USA Today, dude.

    However, I do see now that the labs I have worked in all WAY overspent/went overboard on appropriate equipment for containment. We could have just been using twill.

  2. #4722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Yeah, he still thinks we're talking about masks.
    No doubt I'm in the trees while many are discussing the wider forest. However, it seems clear that some think that masks are nothing but signals of virtue, loyalty oaths, etc. I won't dispute that as a sociological fact, some are using masks for these purposes, but whether that's all they are is a biological question. The experiments I've cited demonstrate that masks can be a useful tool for viral source control as evidenced by the experiments I've cited. If you're sick or think you're sick and wearing one to limit others exposure you're not an asshole or a pussy or an idiot. That's enough from me about masks.

  3. #4723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_V View Post
    I read what you posted, at least one of the studies he cites directly contradicts his conclusion. I took a look at citation 18 "A Quantitative Assessment of the Efficacy of Surgical and N95 Masks to Filter Influenza Virus in Patients With Acute Influenza Infection"

    They demonstrated that surgical masks and N95 masks are "equally effective when used for short periods to prevent the spread of infection. Our findings support current guidelines recommending surgical or procedural masks be worn by patients with suspected influenza to limit viral dissemination to others"

    This work has been partially replicated by others:

    Influenza Virus Aerosols in Human Exhaled Breath: Particle Size, Culturability, and Effect of Surgical Masks
    So this is your argument for why we should all wear masks? It's referring to sick patients who are welcome to wear the mask, or quarantine themselves. Why heap the social division measures on everybody?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jump 22 View Post
    Scientists claim this Virus could cause Brain Damage to infected patients.
    I foresee a Second Lockdown coming soon
    There's a guy who's actually hypothesizing brain damage from COVID is causing the riots.

  6. #4726
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelPB View Post
    So this is your argument for why we should all wear masks? It's referring to sick patients who are welcome to wear the mask, or quarantine themselves. Why heap the social division measures on everybody?
    The post you reference makes no argument for what people should do.

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  9. #4729
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnst_nhb View Post
    Again, in order to assess the validity of a paper, one must read the Methods, the most important part of a scientific paper. It is why many papers/findings are reported without considering the fact that the methods were in-vitro (as these are.) Yes, the data found in these seems valid but by no means does it directly correlate to in-vivo (real life.) Why? Because human respiration is not a linear blast. And respiratory droplets vary in size.

    As for the USA Today article you posted. I may feel compelled to respond when I am done laughing. Its the USA Today, dude.

    However, I do see now that the labs I have worked in all WAY overspent/went overboard on appropriate equipment for containment. We could have just been using twill.
    Very true, the methods section is super important.

    The study was designed to test the filtration of efficiency of varying aerosol sizes in different fabrics. In the lab setting they could systematically size select the droplets and assess filtration, which is pretty cool albeit necessarily uses an "in-vitro" method.

    Two of the articles I previously linked were in-vivo, with human subjects.

    Influenza Virus Aerosols in Human Exhaled Breath: Particle Size, Culturability, and Effect of Surgical Masks
    Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks | Nature Medicine

    I get that USA today isn't exactly a paragon of journalism but the article quotes researchers with relevant expertise in airborne transmission like Dr Linsey Marr and Dr Lisa Brosseau. Maybe you disagree with their descriptions of filtration and transmission based on theory and empirical data, but the source of the quote seems irrelevant.

  10. #4730
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    Gods dammit!!!!

    New Mexico governor pushes high school football back to February - CBSSports.com

    The boys of fall (in New Mexico) are now the boys of February...if they let them play at all.

    I hate this. These sorry wastes of skin are ruining a soooooo much. It has gotten beyond out of hand.

    sb

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