COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 495

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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #4941
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    • starting strength seminar december 2022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Charles View Post
    Milwaukee has a new mandatory mask order. In addition to the usual, demonstrable, ignorance of the policy makers. They included a religious exemption .

    I understand that they would want to appear sensitive to religion, and religious mask not wearing is so deep in the noise of this horse shit policy that it matters not at all, however they must have given some explicit rationalization. It might be part of my religion. I'm just not sure.
    I have a medical reason for not wearing a mask. HIPAA regulations prevent me being asked what it is. So, there you go.

  2. #4942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I have a medical reason for not wearing a mask. HIPAA regulations prevent me being asked what it is. So, there you go.
    Members of a nearby gym have been open for business for members whose doctor has told them to exercise for their health. And, like you said, HIPAA regulations forbid authorities for asking for details. The gym is busy. Of course, the town is not run by little tyrants.

    And then there is this

  3. #4943
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    did you guys know that #theexperts are now doing interviews for InStyle magazine. Hopefully Rip is next month

    Dr. Anthony Fauci and Wife Dr. Christine Grady on Coronavirus and Quarantine | InStyle

  4. #4944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Harlin View Post
    How does slowing it down expedite itís end?
    Fair question, and I will say my answer is based on intuition and some experience, but not on some big study that can prove it.

    If it's not spread at all person-to-person for 2 weeks, maybe a month, it's gone. So if maximal protection measures are used: hand hygiene, masks, social distancing, large-scale testing and quarantining of known positives, that should do it. Why hasn't that happened? Because large pockets of people are not doing these things and are passing it around, creating rolling reservoirs of virus.

    It seems clear to me that this is a fairly contagious virus, on the level of the common cold, and that most people carrying it don't get very sick but can still pass it around. Measures that would minimize spread of the common cold (maybe 10-15% of which are from coronaviruses) should work. If there is another explanation for what we have seen with the recent large numbers of positive tests in places that have relaxed social distancing, and the clusters of positives among, for example, spring breakers, I'd be interested to hear it.

    I suppose you could make the argument "well, since not enough people will follow strict containment procedures to actually stop this thing, we shouldn't bother." That's a defensible position, but to me it feels like surrender. I know that wearing a mask feels to other people like surrender. So, here we are, stuck with half-measures. Better than nothing? I don't know. Let the debate continue.

  5. #4945
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfsully View Post
    So if you want this whole thing to be over, wearing a mask when you can't social distance makes sense.
    Could you please help me understand what this looks like, from your perspective? Let's say 100% of the American public wears a mask 100% of the time unless they're eating, brushing their teeth, etc. They wear one inside their homes, when they sleep, when they shower, etc. Absolute compliance.

    Let's say they do this for 8 weeks. What does the world (or the USA) look like on September 11th, 2020? Are there zero cases of COVID19? Will there never be a case of COVID19 ever again? Can I go to the gym again on the 11th? Hit up a bar afterwards? Stop wearing my mask? Will this eliminate COVID19 (maybe even all respiratory diseases) from our collective vocabulary?

    P.S. Plenty of places now make you wear a mask even when you CAN social distance.

  6. #4946
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    I don't suppose anyone has a list of those lawyers from a few weeks back that were willing to freely represent you if you received a mask fine, eh? I am not leaving my career and obligations to the federal government just to go back and bend over for a governor's "order." Seeing as how I will be between jobs... it couldn't hurt to be prepared.

  7. #4947
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfsully View Post
    I think you are misinterpreting the results and conclusions here. First, to say that there is a "lack of compelling evidence" (their phrase) is very different from saying that something is "thought to be completely ineffective" (your phrase). If you look at the studies they cited, most found a trend toward the effectiveness of masks and handwashing, but they did not meet statistical significance. This suggests that there is probably a benefit, but that it may be small and/or perhaps it is hard to study. Several of the studies cited found evidence of good effect of masks and handwashing in secondary analyses where they focused on subsets where the compliance was known (ie they presumably had observed frequency of masks and handwashing rather than relying on self-report). Secondary subset analyses are generally less reliable than the primary outcomes, so these were not considered in the overall conclusions of the analysis. But I think this is not surprising. In our hospital, long before COVID, we found that observed hand hygeine was much lower than self-reported hand hygeine among doctors and nurses.

    Of all the nonpharm interventions studied, masks and handwashing had the best evidence (their grade was "Moderate") for effectiveness. They did find some effectiveness with social distancing and strict travel restrictions as well, among other things. So in general, we would conclude that there is likely some benefit to doing these interventions, which should be weighed against the cost of doing it.

    As far as I can tell, the downsides of masks are:

    1. there is a small financial and time expense to using masks
    2. masks make some people feel bad

    The upside is that they probably provide some slowing to the spread of covid, flu, etc. So if you want this whole thing to be over, wearing a mask when you can't social distance makes sense.

    Your criticism is fair: the absence of evidence doesn't indicate evidence of absence. My interpretation was mistaken.

    However, I don't think the essence of my post was wrong: that the science around current mitigation policies is portrayed as much more settled and certain than it really is. And that perhaps political expedience (rather than scientific validity) might play into "experts" recommendations (the "do something" syndrome, in Charlie Munger's words).

    Some these interventions are benign (wearing a mask is no big deal, all things considered). But others have ruined lives and livelihoods (lock-downs; selective opening of businesses; curtailment of our civil liberties). All in the name of "science", and "evidence-based", and "experts". And we're not allowed to even question these policies. It's this last part that's irritating to me on a personal level and dangerous to everyone, at the societal level.

  8. #4948
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    Quote Originally Posted by ltomo View Post
    Very interesting, thanks for the information. I'll be adding these to my "to-read" list.
    Mind you, Hudson and the Austrian School are on two completely opposing sides of the spectrum. Hudson is a classical economist heavily influenced by Marxís theories of labor and surplus value, and the Mises type libertarians are, well, hard core libertarians. You need to read both with a certain level of distance. Ben Bernanke wrote a book about his role in the 2008 crash, or he had it ghost written to be more precise. If you want to see some perversion, try that piece of shit.

    You should also try Keynesí General Theory, especially if you are gonna be studying up on the Austrians, they fucking hate Keynes. They hate Keynes so much.

  9. #4949
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I have a medical reason for not wearing a mask. HIPAA regulations prevent me being asked what it is. So, there you go.
    HIPAA only applies to very specific entities, namely medical facilities. There's nothing in HIPAA that would prevent a business from asking you why you weren't wearing a mask. Just thought you should be aware.

    190-Who must comply with HIPAA privacy standards | HHS.gov

    And this one covers the ADA nonsense that people have been trotting out on social media along with the HIPAA nonsense. As a teacher of students with special needs, I find using ADA as an excuse (in the absence of an actual disability) not to wear a mask particularly irritating. People also don't seem to realize that in order to receive accommodations under ADA guidelines, you are REQUIRED to disclose your disability to the entity from which you are attempting to obtain those accommodations.

    Can People Without Disabilities Use an ADA 'Mask Loophole' in Stores?

  10. #4950
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Harlin View Post
    How does slowing it down expedite itís end?
    I'm still trying to wrap my head around the logic of the people who want to spread this thing out. There are too many people who haven't come to grips with the fact that they're probably going to become exposed to the corona virus, no matter how many precautions they take. If there's no vaccine and plenty of hospital capacity, why delay the inevitable?

    The more I look at how countries like Sweden have weathered this thing the more pissed off I get. We could have been done with this weeks ago, and instead our politicians keep dragging it out.

    I just talked to a teacher buddy from Chicago, and he said some teachers from the public school system are threatening to resign if school opens back up in the fall. I'm no fan of most public schools, but I wonder if these teachers realize that a lot of parents rely on the school system to take care of the kids while the parents are at work.

    These people are just living in a different plane of existence or something.

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