COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 513

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  1. #5121
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfsully View Post
    .
    He also cites a study (really another meta analysis) that warns that “improper mask usage” may increase risk of transmission. This suggests that proper mask usage is superior to improper mask usage, ergo masks provide some benefit.
    Not really. It means that wearing a mask properly is better than wearing one improperly - this doesn’t suggest that wearing a mask provides a benefit, but wearing one improperly is hazardous, mmkay. Otherwise, fair points.

  2. #5122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    Hmm, is it just me, or is anyone else getting a distinct whiff of anti-semitism drifting across the Atlantic from the UK?
    UK here. The socialism of fools is sadly always about. What caught your interest?

  3. #5123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    Hmm, is it just me, or is anyone else getting a distinct whiff of anti-semitism drifting across the Atlantic from the UK?
    Depends on your definition of anti-Semitism, I guess. If you're going with the revised definition as in Trump's 2019 executive order, called for by the Zionist Organization of America, which conflates criticism of the state of Israel and Zionism with racist Jew-hating, then I guess so. Jared Kushner wrote in the New York Times that the definition “makes clear that Anti-Zionism is antisemitism”.

    I disagree, though. By that logic, any criticism of BLM could be see as racist behaviour, too.

  4. #5124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    Hmm, is it just me, or is anyone else getting a distinct whiff of anti-semitism drifting across the Atlantic from the UK?
    Ah, you're one of these "any criticism of Israel equals anti-semitism" types. We hear lots of that here in Britain.

    You shouldn't assume that some people are above criticism purely on account of their birth.

  5. #5125
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    Quote Originally Posted by JordanNewell View Post
    UK here. The socialism of fools is sadly always about. What caught your interest?
    Matt Jackson's and Ayrsson's thinly disguised screeds about the Jeeeeewsssss. Oswald Mosley would be proud.

  6. #5126
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    Got told by a Karen at Atlanta Barbell last night to wear my mask correctly and put it over my nose. Mask wearing is currently required here by local ordinance. At that moment it was just over my mouth. I then put it over my nose and she informed me that it wasn't over my nose enough. It got me pissed enough to hit my heavy bench 240x5x3

  7. #5127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe
    Once people have been sufficiently stimulated by the "soaring case numbers" bullshit, something new will be necessary.
    Exactly my point. But the delayed brain damage story is more evil than the deadly virus fable. One one hand, it adds to the uncertainty because you could have it and don't even feel it, which means you can't even rely on your own perception - now you should be uncertain and seek help from the experts. On the other hand, the death rates become meaningless, and delayed consequences are harder to (dis)proof.


    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Wolf View Post
    This is a good link to show/send people when they pivot and move the goalposts to the long term damaging effects:
    Long term outcomes in survivors of epidemic Influenza A (H7N9) virus infection | Scientific Reports
    I think it's not that great for that purpose. The lasting effects described here are only lung damage, after a viral infection that affected the lungs. The evil thing of Corona is that it can allegedly affect multiple organs, including your brain. The "we still don't know a lot of things" tagline about Corona just adds to the uncertainty and fear and makes precautions "until scientists figure it out" that more reasonable.

    The implication, stated or not, is that instead of flattening the curve/trying to avoid hospital overruns (...), we must now take every possible action to completely minimize, if not eliminate, every new case from happening, no matter the cost.
    This is really an important point. It happened silently, without too many people noticing or if they notice, getting angry about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan Dragisic View Post
    Where I live
    Thank you, it's very interesting to get perspectives from different countries in this globally embarrassing travesty.

    All because they can’t understand how little a shit everyone gives about RTL in Germany.
    That's true, with a big BUT. I think while most sane people dismiss that channel, there are not a few who let themselves be influenced by the mass media.


    The mass mask obedience is disturbing to me. I wonder if German people are just too good at following orders in the name of the "greater good", but it seems it's not just here. Many people are genuinely scared, and fear overrules thought when you don't deal with it. Others are just sheep.

  8. #5128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    ONCE AGAIN, JF, just because I post something doesn't mean I'm endorsing the analysis. Usually the post makes an interesting point. Surely you've seen things on ABCNBCCBSCNNFOX that were complete bullshit, far worse than this, that you didn't have the opportunity to refute. That's why we're here, giving you this forum. The point (I think) he made pretty well was that if N95 masks by themselves in a clinical/lab setting do not provide protection against viral infection, what is the point of pulling your T-shirt up around your face/wearing a bandanna like Jesse James/buying a cloth mask with a badass skull on it and pretending that you're participating in an effective Public Health initiative? Masks are signals of either virtue or obedience, and that's all -- that is my point, not his.
    I understand that you don't necessarily endorse everything said in a link that you post, but I thought this video was pretty transparently shoddy, and am surprised you posted it. I don't see much on ABC etc. because I don't watch that stuff. If he had made an actual argument that N95s don't work in the lab, yes, that would be interesting, but he did not make that point. The studies he cited stated only that N95s work about the same as surgical masks. For all we know, those studies said they both provide 100% protection (I know that's not true, but you get the point).

    The frustrating thing is that there ARE studies that shed doubt on the effectiveness of masks, but he didn't quote any of them. There are also studies that demonstrate some effectiveness of masks. The kind of analysis that would reconcile these things is well beyond the capabilities of the guy in the video, whose reading comprehension is suspect, since he puts up blurbs that don't even say what he says they say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Did you read the post by Megan Watkins yesterday? What did you think of that? And what about this, that has some interesting things to say about the cost of this fucking enormous hoax to society?

    Video: Screeching Woman With Tape Measure Lectures Others For Not Social Distancing – Summit News

    I didn't see the Megan Watkins post, I may try to find that if you think it's worthwhile.

    I don't find the videos of people yelling about masks, etc. to be compelling. There are dumbasses and wackos on both sides of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soule View Post
    Not really. It means that wearing a mask properly is better than wearing one improperly - this doesn’t suggest that wearing a mask provides a benefit, but wearing one improperly is hazardous, mmkay. Otherwise, fair points.
    Why would wearing a mask improperly be more hazardous than wearing it properly, if a properly worn mask is ineffective?

    Most likely explanation: if you wear a mask, you may feel less vulnerable and do things that increase your risk of exposure. With an improperly worn mask, you don't have the protection that you think you do.

    We don't really know what the explanation was, in that study quoted in the video. He takes it entirely out of context, puts up a screenshot that doesn't include the quote he is reading, and doesn't give a citation so we can go read the actual study. Again, he may have stumbled across some valid points here and there, but most of the "evidence" he cited was unrelated to what he was talking about.

  9. #5129
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    Quote Originally Posted by peng View Post
    It got me pissed enough to hit my heavy bench 240x5x3
    But not enough to tell her to mind her own fucking business?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfsully View Post
    I understand that you don't necessarily endorse everything said in a link that you post, but I thought this video was pretty transparently shoddy, and am surprised you posted it. I don't see much on ABC etc. because I don't watch that stuff. If he had made an actual argument that N95s don't work in the lab, yes, that would be interesting, but he did not make that point. The studies he cited stated only that N95s work about the same as surgical masks. For all we know, those studies said they both provide 100% protection (I know that's not true, but you get the point).

    The frustrating thing is that there ARE studies that shed doubt on the effectiveness of masks, but he didn't quote any of them. There are also studies that demonstrate some effectiveness of masks. The kind of analysis that would reconcile these things is well beyond the capabilities of the guy in the video, whose reading comprehension is suspect, since he puts up blurbs that don't even say what he says they say.
    Here is one of the papers, a meta of 10 RCTs: Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures - Volume 26, Number 5—May 2020 - Emerging Infectious Diseases journal - CDC

    From the paper:

    Face Masks

    In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2). One study evaluated the use of masks among pilgrims from Australia during the Hajj pilgrimage and reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group (33). Two studies in university settings assessed the effectiveness of face masks for primary protection by monitoring the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among student hall residents for 5 months (9,10). The overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies (9,10). Study designs in the 7 household studies were slightly different: 1 study provided face masks and P2 respirators for household contacts only (34), another study evaluated face mask use as a source control for infected persons only (35), and the remaining studies provided masks for the infected persons as well as their close contacts (11–13,15,17). None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group (11–13,15,17,34,35). Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group.
    This seems fairly convincing to me. His general point is that face masks don't work the way the Governor of New Mexico et al says they work. Read the whole paper, it could be complete bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by jfsully View Post
    I didn't see the Megan Watkins post, I may try to find that if you think it's worthwhile.
    NYC Covid-19 experience - Megan Watkins - Google Docs

    And this could be complete bullshit too, but I don't think so.

  10. #5130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    But not enough to tell her to mind her own fucking business?
    But she was! Wasn't Peng was putting her at risk?

    The outside world has started to look very strange to me. I can't see many peoples face's anymore. Very different. It is indeed a cultural shift.

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