COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events - Page 1317

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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #13161
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    • starting strength seminar august 2021
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    Not sure what warranted all that capital case aggression, but hey, whatever makes you happy.
    I would like to focus on this bit:

    Quote Originally Posted by jonasfj70 View Post
    I agree with you that the science on wearing a face mask to reduce the spread of covid-19 virus is a little bit undecided. However, the idea to make it into an existential matter is insane.
    There are two sides that concern the decision to force people to wear a mask, and the two side don't have the same weight (imho, of course). The obvious side of the issue is the scientific merit of the decision itself.
    The less obvious side, and imho way more interesting, is the method used to arrive at such a decision. In a few words, I think this is a case of government by (poisoned) science.
    .
    It starts by presenting TheScience as an abstract, monolithic, unquestioning and unquestionable institution, a body of conclusions about which there is no dissent. This is the view of science that dovetails pretty well with the instinctive, popular view of Science as a realm of very educated people impartially evaluating the Truth via carefully collected empirical evidence; as such, it's easy to get it accepted.

    The problem with this view, which is perfectly acceptable for everyday purpose, is that it masks the fact that Science, the real one, is first of all a process (not an institution) that encourages and thrives only through the relentless expression of doubts and the challenge to received wisdom. And this is especially true in idiographic sciences, like anything medicine-related, which don't deal with natural laws (like nomothetic sciences do, e.g. physics).
    .
    This idea of one single TheScience, infallible and with no doubts, is then used as justification to assume decisions that trample over the most basic rights. It's a very effective mechanism, because if the majority of people think that TheScience is infallible, then when TheScience says that a mask is mandatory, there is no point in raising objections.
    .
    Side note: this used to be the role of TheMarket, a social construct that was elevated to the rank of self-evident principle of all human interactions. The grossest abuses could, and have, been perpetrated in the name of TheMarket and its assumption that maximum personal profit results into the highest social benefit. But later TheMarket has lost a bit of its lustre, a lot of people are beginning to see the aberrations it leads to. So, something stronger was needed, something with a reputation for impartiality and competence; that something is TheScience.
    .
    What has happened is therefore that the good name of Science, the real one, has been transposed and applied to a very partial and twisted version of it; a version where dissenting scientists are silenced, doctors who ask questions are struck off, and experts can only offer 'the right' opinion, because if they offered the wrong one, their career would suffer. People think what they see is Science, the true one, but they are seeing a travesty of it. And this is doubly tragic, because not only it leads to massive abuses and loss of freedom, but it also destroys any trust one can have in true Science.
    .
    So, people making a fuss about having to wear a mask are not dong so just because it's inconvenient, and it makes little medical sense. They are also raising the alarm about the method that lead to this situation, because once this method is established unchallenged, it can, and I think it will, be used to justify any sort of monstrosity. Because method is always superior to merit, so a critique of the former is way more important than one of the latter.
    .
    IPB

  2. #13162
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    Quote Originally Posted by samhain3184 View Post
    Solid speech by DeSantis at the Lincoln Dinner: 'STAND YOUR GROUND': Gov. Desantis addresses Pennsylvania Republicans - YouTube

    He called the tech ceo pajama boys, I suspect he reads pj media. I know he comments on citizen press site now and again.
    I hear and see a lot of amazing stuff coming from him. I know we have people here who would rather he stayed governor of Florida so he could get shit done. Well, I admit if I were Floridian, I'd probably be behind that. But I personally would like to see more guys like this running things at the federal level, especially in the Republican party. The federal-level GOP is pretty pathetic.

  3. #13163
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlPrincipeBrutto View Post
    There are two sides that concern the decision to force people to wear a mask, and the two side don't have the same weight (imho, of course). The obvious side of the issue is the scientific merit of the decision itself.
    The less obvious side, and imho way more interesting, is the method used to arrive at such a decision. In a few words, I think this is a case of government by (poisoned) science.
    .
    It starts by presenting TheScience as an abstract, monolithic, unquestioning and unquestionable institution, a body of conclusions about which there is no dissent. This is the view of science that dovetails pretty well with the instinctive, popular view of Science as a realm of very educated people impartially evaluating the Truth via carefully collected empirical evidence; as such, it's easy to get it accepted.

    The problem with this view, which is perfectly acceptable for everyday purpose, is that it masks the fact that Science, the real one, is first of all a process (not an institution) that encourages and thrives only through the relentless expression of doubts and the challenge to received wisdom. And this is especially true in idiographic sciences, like anything medicine-related, which don't deal with natural laws (like nomothetic sciences do, e.g. physics).
    .
    This idea of one single TheScience, infallible and with no doubts, is then used as justification to assume decisions that trample over the most basic rights. It's a very effective mechanism, because if the majority of people think that TheScience is infallible, then when TheScience says that a mask is mandatory, there is no point in raising objections.
    .
    Side note: this used to be the role of TheMarket, a social construct that was elevated to the rank of self-evident principle of all human interactions. The grossest abuses could, and have, been perpetrated in the name of TheMarket and its assumption that maximum personal profit results into the highest social benefit. But later TheMarket has lost a bit of its lustre, a lot of people are beginning to see the aberrations it leads to. So, something stronger was needed, something with a reputation for impartiality and competence; that something is TheScience.
    .
    What has happened is therefore that the good name of Science, the real one, has been transposed and applied to a very partial and twisted version of it; a version where dissenting scientists are silenced, doctors who ask questions are struck off, and experts can only offer 'the right' opinion, because if they offered the wrong one, their career would suffer. People think what they see is Science, the true one, but they are seeing a travesty of it. And this is doubly tragic, because not only it leads to massive abuses and loss of freedom, but it also destroys any trust one can have in true Science.
    .
    So, people making a fuss about having to wear a mask are not dong so just because it's inconvenient, and it makes little medical sense. They are also raising the alarm about the method that lead to this situation, because once this method is established unchallenged, it can, and I think it will, be used to justify any sort of monstrosity. Because method is always superior to merit, so a critique of the former is way more important than one of the latter.
    Excellent post, IPB. But he cannot possibly understand it.

    ____________________________________________

    More on the US Military: U.S. Army Abandoning Due Process | National Review

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  4. #13164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan1 View Post
    Although NY now "allows" vaccinated individuals to avoid wearing masks in most settings, I was surprised how few people stopped wearing masks inside.
    Me too.

    Mask wearing in the Tampa Bay Area (based on my own experience) is still higher than before the mandates.

    Insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satch12879 View Post
    Listen, my ancestors were run out of their homeland by the Ottomans, only to survive by pledging fealty to a foreign sovereign who in turn “allowed” them to make their new homes in some of the most toughest, most desolate areas of Europe. You know who is not around anymore? The fucking Ottomans. You know what I don’t want? Greece given to all 100k of us scattered throughout Italy and the rest of the world. Nor am I going to scam anyone to do that.

    Wait, what? Armenians? Hold please.
    [Slow Clap]

    Good thing.

    You'd have to pull out some BS 6 million number and then have over a century of control over the media to get any of that anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderFun View Post
    I hear and see a lot of amazing stuff coming from him. I know we have people here who would rather he stayed governor of Florida so he could get shit done. Well, I admit if I were Floridian, I'd probably be behind that. But I personally would like to see more guys like this running things at the federal level, especially in the Republican party. The federal-level GOP is pretty pathetic.
    How would he get elected at the Federal level? Have we unrigged elections as well as cured Covid?

  5. #13165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Excellent post, IPB. But he cannot possibly understand it.
    What's even more telling is that there is plenty of science surrounding masks. By and large, they're useless. We know from the 1918 flu that cloth masks aren't very effective even against an infection that's spread by larger droplets. They're utterly useless against an infection spread by aerosols. Medical masks are slightly, slightly more effective against droplets and still pretty useless against aerosols. And much of that limited effectiveness is dependent on a good fit. N95s are effective against both, again dependent on fit, but no one's requiring those for the general public because reasons.

    This has been known for years, was made obvious during the early stages of the pandemic, and has been demonstrated time and again in real-world studies since, and yet the "scientists" are ignoring The Science. There's tremendous pressure to fall in line, though, because even the scientists who've concluded that masks don't work are still recommending we wear them anyway, just in case they might accidentally work a little, or something.

    This is about security theater and compliance, pure and simple.

  6. #13166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    What's even more telling is that there is plenty of science surrounding masks. By and large, they're useless. We know from the 1918 flu that cloth masks aren't very effective even against an infection that's spread by larger droplets. They're utterly useless against an infection spread by aerosols. Medical masks are slightly, slightly more effective against droplets and still pretty useless against aerosols. And much of that limited effectiveness is dependent on a good fit. N95s are effective against both, again dependent on fit, but no one's requiring those for the general public because reasons.

    This has been known for years, was made obvious during the early stages of the pandemic, and has been demonstrated time and again in real-world studies since, and yet the "scientists" are ignoring The Science. There's tremendous pressure to fall in line, though, because even the scientists who've concluded that masks don't work are still recommending we wear them anyway, just in case they might accidentally work a little, or something.

    This is about security theater and compliance, pure and simple.
    That's because the scientists are busy either being politicians themselves (Fauci), or kissing up to them for their grant money.

  7. #13167
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnst_nhb View Post
    On what authority do you base this opinion?
    try this for a reference:
    The Hidden Agendas of Latino Activists - Gangs - POLICE Magazine

    Given the actions of Democrats and the Biden Admin in particular, how's this for a prescient movie plot:

    The film is set in a United States in which foreign immigration has skyrocketed: The mayor of Los Angeles speaks only in Spanish, Rhode Island is populated mostly by Chinese-Americans, and Alabama has a congressman from India. Politics is openly reduced to a matter of catering to various ethnic groups for their votes - the Alabama congressman will only support the U.S. President if his state receives more money for Hindu temples. When an atomic weapon is used on Pakistan by India, an international organization makes plans to bring orphans to Idaho.

    Idaho Governor Jim Farley (Beau Bridges) orders the state's National Guard to close its borders, as Idaho has already received more than a million refugees; he acknowledges this even though the Governor himself routinely indulges in Mexican food, Mexican soap operas, and an affair with a Mexican-American reporter (Elizabeth Peña). Despite the best efforts of his press secretary Jimmy Cannon (Kevin Dunn), Farley remains largely oblivious to the national crisis he's the center of, since Farley is more concerned with rekindling his romance with his mistress rather than dealing with national matters.

    Meanwhile, the President of the United States (Phil Hartman) turns out to be an equally ineffectual leader, ruthlessly exploiting immigration to fill districts and states with those most likely to vote for his own party. He will move more Koreans to New York since Koreans are one of his core constituencies. Reputed as indecisive, the President delegates his decision-making entirely to his advisors, most notably his unofficial chief advisor, lobbyist Jack B. Buchan (James Coburn).

    Buchan, however, is less concerned with the good of the nation, and more concerned with politics, especially how the President's actions will play on television (resulting, for example, in a 72-hour deadline being shortened to 671⁄2 hours to prevent the news from interrupting Susan Lucci's farewell appearance on the soap opera All My Children). Buchan regularly influences the President's decisions by manipulating his desire to emulate previous U.S. presidents, even going so far as to pepper presidential statements with fictitious "quotes" from President Dwight D. Eisenhower.

    Meanwhile, the NN cable network is reporting the events and influencing them at the same time. News director Mel (Dan Hedaya) attempts to time events to maximize ratings, while his staff becomes polarized over the political issues involved in the conflict between the Governor and the President. Standard fare for the cable network is to show footage of crying immigrant children, which is done with the Pakistani orphans waiting to move to Idaho.
    I'm not sure how many of you will remember this movie. It is called "The Second Civil War" and was produced for HBO and premiered in March 1997. Of course, all references to the movie have been scrubbed from HBO's website, as though the movie never existed.

  8. #13168
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    A little comedic relief:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Cox View Post
    That's because the scientists are busy either being politicians themselves (Fauci), or kissing up to them for their grant money.
    Old school - science for defense- was always the domain of the right. The left got in the game with global warming. The right countered with terrorism. The left clearly threw all in with Covid. (Racism is small potatoes and not a hint of science).

    Who is promoting UFOs? They will own it all.

  10. #13170
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    starting strength coach development program
    Israel, Palestine... is it just a grift?

    I Do Not Support Palestine... I Also Do Not Support Israel

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