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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #13721
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post
    I'm confused by that last eyeglass demonstration.
    Is humidity a suspended vapor?
    Or, in humid air, is H2O in the air dissolved similarly to how salt and sugar are dissolved in water, or is it similar to a particulate suspension that can be filtered, as corn starch in water?
    It looks like a demonstration of condensation of humid air.
    Is there a process by which humidity can be filtered from the air using particulate filters, without using a cooler surface relative to warmer humid air?
    Legitimate question. Any chemists care to weigh in?

  2. #13722
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post
    I'm confused by that last eyeglass demonstration.
    Is humidity a suspended vapor?
    Or, in humid air, is H2O in the air dissolved similarly to how salt and sugar are dissolved in water, or is it similar to a particulate suspension that can be filtered, as corn starch in water?
    It looks like a demonstration of condensation of humid air.
    Is there a process by which humidity can be filtered from the air using particulate filters, without using a cooler surface relative to warmer humid air?
    Chemical engineer here (close enough).

    Most real multiphase systems are rarely in complete equilibrium so you end up with a mixture of dissolved vapor and droplets that are coalescing. In theory though if the air is in perfect equilibrium and only contains water vapor, then no it cannot be filtered. A vapor is just a gas, with individual, far spread apart molecules (the difference is that a gas cannot be condensed by being compressed). So you cannot filter “humidity” out of air anymore than you can filter oxygen from nitrogen.

  3. #13723
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    And a gas cannot transmit a virus.

  4. #13724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_B View Post
    This is a question I've been wanting to ask someone in the field since the beginning. Remember in February or March of last year when Fauci said, "There's no real need to wear masks right now. Most of the transmissions are believed to have come from surface contact." I remember it clearly on 60 Minutes in March of 2020, two months after he stated that COVID-19 wasn't a big deal.

    My question is: how many viruses that cause respiratory diseases use surface contact as a primary transmission vector? I don't mean to sound flippant.... Well, maybe just a bit... But, I learned this stuff in 6th grade science class. We had the nation's top infectious disease specialist telling us not to stick our hands in goo and lick our fingers or poke our eyes because that's how the world was going to come to an end. When you look at the man's history of being a foolish clown, this is one part that gets glossed over quickly. I anticipate that you'll fall back on, "That was where the evidence led us at the time," but that's a shitty excuse and a complete failure to think with just the slightest bit of common sense.

    I do believe that the scientific method, applied properly, will yield the most correct answers over time. That said, sometimes it takes a very long time (think of advances in physics from Newton to Einstein), and in a situation that requires answers, sometimes common sense and anecdote is a better solution to getting things done.
    There was a relatively profound misunderstanding of how this virus transmitted at the beginning of this pandemic, and that was rooted in misunderstandings in the medical community that go back decades.

    I'm not aware of a respiratory virus that transmits primarily by contact with surfaces. For most viruses, we do not know the relative contributions of aerosols, respiratory drops, and surfaces. These are actually very difficult and expensive studies to do. Because most folks believe that we've already sorted this stuff out it's also very difficult to get these studies funded.

  5. #13725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    And a gas cannot transmit a virus.
    Correct.

    Now I do think John Watson is on to something that what we’re seeing in that video may just be condensation effects. You’d have to do the same experiment with the glasses closer to human body temperature to eliminate the possibility of condensation.

  6. #13726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    And a gas cannot transmit a virus.
    Apparently a virus needs to be on an aerosol droplet.

    So, the video demonstrates a very poor understanding science, at best.

    He has merely demonstrated that a gas can pass through filters.

    A demonstration of what percentage of aerosol droplets (capable of carrying a virus) that pass through the filter might be more telling.
    Certainly contaminated droplets seem likely to be able to pass around face masks as typically worn, moreso with multiple masks.

    Does the amount of aerosol droplets, if any, reduced, blocked, or deflected by the mask reduce transmission of the virus?

    Does a reduced viral load, presuming a mask could even do that, result in less severe cases, or non-infection?

    I've not yet seen proper science answering any of this.

  7. #13727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    And a gas cannot transmit a virus.
    Do the droplets, which can be filtered, contain a significant viral load?

  8. #13728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Grantham View Post
    There was a relatively profound misunderstanding of how this virus transmitted at the beginning of this pandemic, and that was rooted in misunderstandings in the medical community that go back decades.

    I'm not aware of a respiratory virus that transmits primarily by contact with surfaces. For most viruses, we do not know the relative contributions of aerosols, respiratory drops, and surfaces. These are actually very difficult and expensive studies to do. Because most folks believe that we've already sorted this stuff out it's also very difficult to get these studies funded.
    There was also a profound misunderstanding of the death rate from this virus too, something that has proven too valuable to abandon when the actual data became available.

    Quote Originally Posted by VNV View Post
    Do the droplets, which can be filtered, contain a significant viral load?
    I don't know, and it's just not interesting since the disease in question doesn't actually kill anybody who is not already dying. It's all over now, except for the power handed to the government by people made afraid by Virologists.

    The Pandemic Is Over; Shots are Worthless in [Market-Ticker-Nad]

    Doctor, note the following:
    Of course the "new drugs" being investigated will be on-patent and expensive. Existing drugs proved to work such as Ivermectin, HCQ, some SSRIs and others are still being ignored despite clinical trial evidence. There are over seven hundred trials of these drugs but you cannot mention any of those trials on said media. That's right -- you will be banned and censored if you reference formal medical studies on social media, you cannot talk about them on any of the mainstream media TV or radio shows nor on Youtube. I personally had a study taken down and this area of my blog exists because Google forbids advertising on any page that mentions formal medical studies they disagree with!

    No, these drugs don't work 100% of the time -- nothing does. But they do work by the science, and that should have been what we did; had we done so hundreds of thousands of people in the US would not have died.
    And the only problem with this is that hundreds of thousands did not die of COVID-19 in the US.

  9. #13729
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post
    Apparently a virus needs to be on an aerosol droplet.

    So, the video demonstrates a very poor understanding science, at best.

    He has merely demonstrated that a gas can pass through filters.

    A demonstration of what percentage of aerosol droplets (capable of carrying a virus) that pass through the filter might be more telling.
    Certainly contaminated droplets seem likely to be able to pass around face masks as typically worn, moreso with multiple masks.

    Does the amount of aerosol droplets, if any, reduced, blocked, or deflected by the mask reduce transmission of the virus?

    Does a reduced viral load, presuming a mask could even do that, result in less severe cases, or non-infection?

    I've not yet seen proper science answering any of this.
    These are all very important questions that have not been answered yet. In fact, influenza is about the only one that we have some of these data for.

  10. #13730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Grantham View Post
    These are all very important questions that have not been answered yet. In fact, influenza is about the only one that we have some of these data for.
    These are pointless questions for anyone capable of thinking effectively about this situation.

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