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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #25421
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    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    It's decentralized, anonymous (although not completely) and private (peer-to-peer, like cash).
    Think about it as cash, that doesn't have a specific source and that you can exchange with someone without having to know who they are or them knowing who you are.
    I'll ask you a similar question:
    How easy is it for the government to interdict the fiat money you are using right now compared to interdicting Bitcoin and its use as a currency?
    They interdict YOU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Have these complicated mathematical riddles made a Mars mission easier to complete? Why would a "miner" be rewarded for solving a complicated mathematical riddle that does not add value to anything outside the bitcoin once it is solved?
    I’ll answer for Fransesco as he’s not doing a very good job.

    The blockchain is an ongoing record of every transaction. If every single dollar in the world had a centralized repository of recipts for every transactions, it’d be miles long.
    If someone paid you for coaching and presented you with a miles long list of “transactions” with your payment tacked onto the end, the only way to know if it was real or fake would be to compare it to your mile long record of transactions. A long and tedious process.
    “miners” add value by doing the accounting work of verifying that the blockchain presented matches everyone else’s centralized transaction list, and thus creates value by giving you certainty that you are not being ripped off.
    They receive payment by “tips” to push your checking to the front of the queue, as well as mathematically having a chance to create a new bitcoin for themselves. I don’t know how this maths works but apparently it does.
    The delays in verifying transactions and the ever growing problem of the size of the blockchain are the central flaws of Bitcoin that I haven’t seen answered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    In short, Bitcoin is a fiat currency.
    Yes it is. Deflationary rather than inflationary but still fiat.
    Having a finite number of bitcoins means nothing if they can be divided infinitely.

  2. #25422
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    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    This is a decentralized technology, not a central bank order forcefully imposed on you by a government. Its mass adaptation will probably take quite some time. This is a larva stage for Bitcoin, but its intrinsic value is much higher than fiat money or an alternative like gold.
    I like the blockchain, it is likely to replace the bank credit system at some point, though I don’t think the banks will go down without a fight. However, I am not so sure you are right about gold - it derives its value because of millennia of use as money, during which time it has served as the best inflation hedge around. Peter Warburton has done a great job of explaining the gold price suppression scheme perpetrated by the central banks, I strongly advise his book Debt and Delusion.

  3. #25423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Donaldson View Post
    Governments don't have to control the generation or exchange of the macguffins themselves to stifle a currency. They just need to influence the exchange of it for something else aspect. Similar to the triad of violence prevention, removing ability, opportunity, or intent will be sufficient. They don't have to lock down the technical ability, just one or both of the other two.
    Really they just need to hit the bottlenecks where bitcoins are turned into USD and bitcoin will basically be the same as the previously mentioned bag of coke. Maybe worth a good amount of money, but you have to have the right connections to make it into money, and both holding onto it AND making that transaction now have considerable risk associated with them.

  4. #25424
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticausal View Post
    The Science is the tree of which mask mandates were just one fruit. So definitely 2. Defunding the police would be awesome if done correctly.
    Policing of law abiding citizens continues to be well funded.

  5. #25425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    They interdict YOU.

    I’ll answer for Fransesco as he’s not doing a very good job.

    The blockchain is an ongoing record of every transaction. If every single dollar in the world had a centralized repository of recipts for every transactions, it’d be miles long.
    If someone paid you for coaching and presented you with a miles long list of “transactions” with your payment tacked onto the end, the only way to know if it was real or fake would be to compare it to your mile long record of transactions. A long and tedious process.
    “miners” add value by doing the accounting work of verifying that the blockchain presented matches everyone else’s centralized transaction list, and thus creates value by giving you certainty that you are not being ripped off.
    They receive payment by “tips” to push your checking to the front of the queue, as well as mathematically having a chance to create a new bitcoin for themselves. I don’t know how this maths works but apparently it does.
    The delays in verifying transactions and the ever growing problem of the size of the blockchain are the central flaws of Bitcoin that I haven’t seen answered.



    Yes it is. Deflationary rather than inflationary but still fiat.
    Having a finite number of bitcoins means nothing if they can be divided infinitely.
    Thanks for that, although you should criticize the Bitcoin FAQ web page.
    Anyway, how would we get to a scenario where we need to divide bitcoins in more than 100,000,000 parts (satoshis)?
    You know, considering no one would want to create inflation to fund things like "a war with Russia" or pointless "recovery funds".

    Is Bitcoin a fiat currency simply because it's not a physical commodity? Because in any other way, it is not a fiat currency, since it's not issued by a government or a bank. You can say it's a fiat currency in El Salvador, since they made it a legal tender, but it's still very different from the fiat money we use, because it's not ISSUED by El Salvador's central bank, they simply agreed to use it.
    This seems more like a semantics problem than an actual issue about its value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan Dragisic View Post
    I like the blockchain, it is likely to replace the bank credit system at some point, though I don’t think the banks will go down without a fight. However, I am not so sure you are right about gold - it derives its value because of millennia of use as money, during which time it has served as the best inflation hedge around. Peter Warburton has done a great job of explaining the gold price suppression scheme perpetrated by the central banks, I strongly advise his book Debt and Delusion.
    Yeah I agree, I don't think gold is going anywhere anytime soon. It's been used as a currency for centuries for a reason, BUT it has stopped being used also for good reasons, no?
    The beauty of Bitcoin is that banks and governments can put on a fight, but they cannot attack it directly, whereas on the other side, Bitcoin doesn't need to attack anyone, it just needs to be. People could be their own banks, I can see how this could piss off a lot of powerful people. Shit, they might start nuking to prevent it from happening, if they're stupid enough. Or more likely, they will try to join the club

    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderFun View Post
    Really they just need to hit the bottlenecks where bitcoins are turned into USD and bitcoin will basically be the same as the previously mentioned bag of coke. Maybe worth a good amount of money, but you have to have the right connections to make it into money, and both holding onto it AND making that transaction now have considerable risk associated with them.
    What if you never turn your bitcoins to USD and just keep exchanging them?

  6. #25426
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    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    Is Bitcoin a fiat currency simply because it's not a physical commodity? Because in any other way, it is not a fiat currency, since it's not issued by a government or a bank. You can say it's a fiat currency in El Salvador, since they made it a legal tender, but it's still very different from the fiat money we use, because it's not ISSUED by El Salvador's central bank, they simply agreed to use it.
    This seems more like a semantics problem than an actual issue about its value.
    Can I go to Subway and pay for my sandwich with Bitcoin? Why not?

  7. #25427
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    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    What if you never turn your bitcoins to USD and just keep exchanging them?
    Exchanging them for what? Other cryptocurrencies? If government makes one illegal it's probably going to make them all that way. If there's one they keep legal, then it's another bottleneck for them to gatekeep.

  8. #25428
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    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    Yeah I agree, I don't think gold is going anywhere anytime soon. It's been used as a currency for centuries for a reason, BUT it has stopped being used also for good reasons, no?
    Well, there is an entire story as to why gold has stopped being used extensively, a much more interesting one than the blockchain. Try this article for instance: The Stupendous Tale | The Vineyard of the Saker

    Two things to keep in mind. One, The Saker is a GRU website, so the author had to adapt his writing to the GRU paradigm, but there is a lot of great analysis. He says in another article that he used to work in Islamic finance, which I guess makes him biased in a way too. Two, it is a long ass article to which one needs to return several times in order to pick up on everything.

    I remembered that Peter Warburton wrote a good article on the topic the years ago, so if you don’t want to read the book: Peter Warburton: The debasement of world currency: It's inflation but not as we know it | Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee | Exposing the long-term manipulation of the gold market

    Quote Originally Posted by Yngvi View Post
    2. How long until websites like SS are banned in the EU for allowing the wrong questions to be asked?
    At least ten years. They need to form committees which need to form working groups, papers need to be written and presented at Commission level, the Commission needs to scrap the ideas, then you get another committee and several more working groups…

    The mighty EU, superpower by strength of regulation!

  9. #25429
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderFun View Post
    Exchanging them for what? Other cryptocurrencies? If government makes one illegal it's probably going to make them all that way. If there's one they keep legal, then it's another bottleneck for them to gatekeep.
    Do you exchange your dollars for yen? Or do you exchange them for goods and services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Can I go to Subway and pay for my sandwich with Bitcoin? Why not?
    Not yet. I see your point, if we want Bitcoin to be used just as dollars are, it means businesses have to accept it, which means it needs to be legalized and taxed by the government.
    My problem to this solution would be to do my business anyway or find a way to avoid taxes or pay just enough to not have any trouble, something like that, not that different from what's already happening (or is it only us Italians?).
    But I realize that on a big scale, this cannot happen. I mean Musk might be able to buy some bitcoins and have people pay for his products with it and some magic tricks here and there, but that can't apply to whole industries. Which is why government acceptance is not the best case scenario for Bitcoin. The best case would be the end of centralized government and banks and a libertarian society and economy.


    Why would you wanna go to Subway anyway?

  10. #25430
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    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    Why would you wanna go to Subway anyway?
    Triple meat/triple cheese Subway Club. Skinny the bread, toast it twice.

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