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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #25521
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Rowe View Post
    Given how fragile high altitude balloons typically are, I would have thought something with a high enough service ceiling could have zipped it with a cannon.

    But I'm not a winger or a zoomie.
    The radar cross section for a balloon is generally low (depending on the material), but the payload was a giant slow moving target given the enormous solar panels and large package. Tracking it and killing it should have been technically trivial. It wasn’t shot down until a rancher in Montana reported it.

  2. #25522
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    Both the f22 and f15 have a published ceiling of 65,000 ft. IIRC a f15 has reached around 100,000 ft, but that would have been specially set up.

  3. #25523
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    Ranchers along the border are frequently having their lives threatened by armed invaders.
    Cartels and illegal aliens routinely steal from and vandalize properties, including harassing or killing cattle.
    They might invade, then trespass on these ranches in groups of 50 men at a time.
    An illegal alien is found dead from a gunshot wound on a 73 year old rancher's property.
    There is no murder weapon.
    There is no account of events.
    There is no reason to suspect the rancher murdered this man who was a criminal trespassing on his property.
    Result: 73 year old rancher is immediately arrested and held on $1 million dollar bond.
    The rancher's photo is plastered across national news, apparently to let American Ranchers know that self defense will not be tolerated and they will be destroyed if they defend their property or lives.
    Elderly rancher charged with first-degree murder of Mexican migrant on his border property and held on $1 million bail - TheBlaze

    This overinflated balloon story fixation is a distraction; Mexico is much more of a security threat than China.

  4. #25524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan Dragisic View Post
    This is really funny.
    In a macabre way, yea.

    Conventional cruise missiles are still a significant threat, since it is very difficult to separate them from ground clutter.

    And yea, the southern border is a strategic front. The KGB operated out of Mexico City during the Cold War for proximity.

  5. #25525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    I'd have thought a radar guided missile would do it though, given it's a gigantic balloon with a gigantic signature.
    I've read, possibly in the very same Twitter thread you mention, that the material the balloon is made is actually fairly permeable to radar signals, hence the signature is not that great, despite the size of the object.

    IPB

  6. #25526
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  7. #25527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    There was an interesting twitter thread that talked about how it's actually harder to shoot it down then thought because a balloon doesn't given normal tracking signals. I'd have thought a radar guided missile would do it though, given it's a gigantic balloon with a gigantic signature.

    I was thinking more actually an airframe getting that high may have been an issue. 58,000 feet seems pretty high to me, I don't know much about air frames but using the most advanced fighter known to man seems odd, unless it was the only airframe capable of it.
    In that case taking 5 days to get one ready isn't great.
    There's not many scenarios where the us military looks good in this whole affair, considering it was known about for weeks.
    The published service ceiling for the F22 is 65,000 feet. The range of the current generation sidewinder is classified but we can assume that a balloon under 100,000 feet would be in range. The challenge for the aircrew and manufacturers tech reps in such a public display is to make sure you hit the target. F22s are going obsolete because they are unreliable and expensive. We only know of one Raptor used in the downing of the balloon. There were probably more on scene in reserve. Raytheon must have breathed a sigh of relief that it was one shot, one kill with the sidewinder. I salute the air and ground crew that pulled this off. Once again the tip of the spear got the idiot leadership off the hook. Their Commanding Officer should be very proud of them.

    Its embarrassing enough that the balloon was allowed to fly across the entire country and send any intelligence it gathered back to China. Failure to bring it down or requiring multiple shots is such a public venue would have been a horrible embarrassment. The Chinese must be getting a good laugh out of this "trial balloon" episode. It won't be the last provocation. They are getting used to eating from our rice bowl.

  8. #25528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yngvi View Post
    Ranchers along the border are frequently having their lives threatened by armed invaders.
    Cartels and illegal aliens routinely steal from and vandalize properties, including harassing or killing cattle.
    They might invade, then trespass on these ranches in groups of 50 men at a time.
    An illegal alien is found dead from a gunshot wound on a 73 year old rancher's property.
    There is no murder weapon.
    There is no account of events.
    There is no reason to suspect the rancher murdered this man who was a criminal trespassing on his property.
    Result: 73 year old rancher is immediately arrested and held on $1 million dollar bond.
    The rancher's photo is plastered across national news, apparently to let American Ranchers know that self defense will not be tolerated and they will be destroyed if they defend their property or lives.
    Elderly rancher charged with first-degree murder of Mexican migrant on his border property and held on $1 million bail - TheBlaze

    This overinflated balloon story fixation is a distraction; Mexico is much more of a security threat than China.
    Aren't we all glad that Kari Lake is not the governor of AZ? Why, she might have had some influence on the Santa Cruz county political machine, and this vicious thug might be free right now, able to harm other criminal trespassers with the politically correct citizenship.

    But what is the real lesson here?

  9. #25529
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlPrincipeBrutto View Post
    I've read, possibly in the very same Twitter thread you mention, that the material the balloon is made is actually fairly permeable to radar signals, hence the signature is not that great, despite the size of the object.

    IPB
    This is neither your nor Subby's intent but the whole discussion feels so Western in its over-complication of things. The coffee at McDonald's is too hot? You know yourself to be careful about it. The bag for the toy is a choking hazard for toddlers? No shit; I didn't need the manufacturers to tell me that. You're forcing my child to muzzle up just to attend school? Try 'n stop me as I escort my son to his classroom. That "girl" wants to use my daughter's school restroom? Excuse me while I go have a word with Zim. The balloon is too tough to track with a missle? Just gun it the fuck down.

    Either Ritter or MacGregor have mentioned a few times now that our military gear is so complicated and high-tech that it loses all relevance and usefulness out on the battlefield with actual peer militaries. I think in the latter social situations and these high-tech military contractor ones the aim is the same: emasculate and milk as much money as possible out of the taxpayer serf while convincing him it is for his own good and safety, since a helpless, uncertain, fearful human being is much easier to rule. So we lean on the courts/rule of law and complicated military equipment when a confident, self-reliant character rooted in cultural and historical norms and simple military arms that function reliably in challenging conditions would more than suffice.

  10. #25530
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