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Thread: COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

  1. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by markus1 View Post

    The more I read the less convinced I am. Particularly in relation to Italy.
    Whatever the value turns out to be (and remember, this value changes depending upon the level and quality of care available), there are certain realities that need to be faced up to.

    Here's one:


    Spain currently has more than 47,500 confirmed cases of COVID-19, fourth behind China, Italy and the United States. On Tuesday alone, the number of new confirmed cases shot up by nearly 6,600.

    On Wednesday, the country’s death toll eclipsed that of China, jumping by more than 700 in one day. In the capital, Madrid, the rapid increase in deaths from the disease has forced city authorities to commandeer an indoor ice-skating rink for use as a makeshift morgue.
    Another sobering statistic is that 14 percent of confirmed cases in Spain are healthcare workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    You continue to behave as though you think this is only about sick people. It's amazing to watch you post like this, over and over.
    I know this is directed at lazygun, but a lot of your posts cause a similar reaction in my own mind. You seem to be discounting the fact that a pandemic isn't just about people getting sick and dying, but that it can paralyze an economy without any government coercion.

  2. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    The largest electrical contractor in the state of Utah just laid off 200 electricians. The state is considering a 30-week shelter-in-place ordinance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Kaul View Post
    Papa Giovanni XXIII Hospital has over 900 beds. It is a large hospital, and considered very well-equipped.

    Global demand for ventilators is currently 10x supply. Everyone from Ford to https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opinion/ventilators-coronavirus-italy.html ]Italian guys with 3D printers[/url] are now making valves, which (as the article states), there are not enough of. HCWs are https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/system-doomed-doctors-nurses-sound-nbc-news-coronavirus-survey-n1164841]anonymously reporting[/url] the dire shortages of PPE, for fear of being reprimanded. The editors of JAMA are crowdsourcing ideas for dealing with the PPE shortage. I have first-hand knowledge of the rationing in NY and NJ hospitals.

    Your standard for "shortage" is completely out of touch with reality. Until every HCW is stripped bare of an N95 mask, and oxygen cannot be supplied to anyone who has an accident in NYC, you will claim the world is in the grip of "unproven projections".
    Why will you not directly answer the questions? It looks like you are trying very hard to push an ideological agenda.

    My question to you was: If there are currently (that means at the present time, not in the future) shortages of respirators, why were Cuomo and Newsom unable to cite any speific incidences of shortage?

    You were unable to answer this question.


    The claims you made were:

    -There are currently ventilator shortages in Italy.
    This is true, according to Italian physicians, however the cause of the shortage is debatable
    -The article you posted demonstrates there are shortages
    The article is there for everyone to read. It does not say what you said it does.
    -The hospitals in the areas surrounding Papa Giovanni XXIII Hospital did in fact have ventilators.
    I did some searching, and it turns out the hospitals in surrounding areas in fact did not have ventilators in the first place.
    "Dr. Nacoti helps at a hospital in San Giovanni Bianco, located in the foothills of the Alps. On Sunday evening, the facility had around 70 coronavirus patients. The hospital, which specializes in outpatient surgery, normally has 20 beds.
    Recently arrived patients lay on gurneys, filling the emergency room and a corridor while they wait for beds to become free.
    Upstairs, more than 50 patients were administered oxygen through helmets or masks. Some were in critical condition, but the hospital has no intensive-care unit and no ventilators".
    - Lessons From Italy’s Hospital Meltdown. ‘Every Day You Lose, the Contagion Gets Worse.’ - WSJ

    Furthermore, I found this article https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...ed-it-n1162786 which says Hospital Papa Giovanni XXIII in Bergamo has 80 patients on ventilators. This is supposedly one of the most advanced, highest quality hospitals in all of Italy. They are expected to take ICU cases from the smaller hospitals in surrounding areas, yet it appears they only have 80 ventilators? Is it lack of preparation due to socialized medicine or is it a genuine shortage?
    "D'Antiga said 80 of the 100 beds in his hospital's intensive care unit are occupied by coronavirus patients hooked up to ventilators"

    -You have also claimed the economy would not be substantially impacted by a month long shutdown.
    We have cited several instances where the economy has already been badly damaged. No need for hypothetical projections here.

    Your arguments are specious, irrelevant or flat out fallacious. (I can't say what you do is sophistry, because you did not rise to that level of sophistication) You would fit in well with CNN.

  3. #633
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    I don't know if you will post the link or not, but this is about the most concise, non-sensationalist view of this I have seen regarding the infectious rate and overall mortality of this.

    https://twitter.com/C4Dispatches/sta...03403619172359

    How you feel about the quote at the end will tell a lot about ourselves.

  4. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacediver View Post
    You seem to be discounting the fact that a pandemic isn't just about people getting sick and dying, but that it can paralyze an economy without any government coercion.
    I do? Have you lost your mind? Every post I've made has been about the economy being paralyzed. It's my primary concern, whether the government has anything to do with it or not. Either you or I have apparently dropped acid.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrunoLawerence View Post
    I don't know if you will post the link or not, but this is about the most concise, non-sensationalist view of this I have seen regarding the infectious rate and overall mortality of this.

    https://twitter.com/C4Dispatches/sta...03403619172359

    How you feel about the quote at the end will tell a lot about ourselves.
    Why would I not post the link, Bruno? Because the good doctor devastates me with his premise? You don't know much about this board.

  5. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsuma View Post
    Video is long for this discussion group...the link below skips forward to the clips of "Event 201" from October, 2019 in NYC...a Pandemic Exercise 6 weeks before the real one:

    Meet this Pandemic's Public Relations team...Viral Marketing - Amazing Polly

    Do NOT miss "flood the zone" at 15:20. That is what we've seen...they have flooded the zone with their message at all levels. Let's be clear, they have spared no expense to deploy resistance to Rip's perspective ("misinformation"). Their control/reach is truly frightening and very effective.

    Is this a good thing or not?
    Live from New York and two martini's deep, this thread has jumped the shark.

    Seriously, "Amazing Polly?" is the source materal.

    All the hysteria you need is right here in this thread.

    It's never just maybe electing a game show host was not a good idea... I know I know #TDS

    The 'not the governments job' stuff is incredible. You mean not the American government, THE logistics and supply chain powerhouse of the world, could maybe prepare some PPE two months ago when it was blinking red? Biggest govt failure of our lifetimes.

    No, instead Fort Worth is going to commandeer your living room. BFD call me when it happens.

    Starting Strength resonated because it sloughed off off all the fitness bs and boiled it down to the essence.

    But a lot people here got their jodhpurs tight going full Cirque du Soleil+Riverdance double header to justify some seriously wacky ideas.

    Give me a break.

    The best case scenario is you all are spared by our example.

  6. #636
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    Did not mean to quote your post in my previous response, Rip. None of that was addressing you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I do? Have you lost your mind? Every post I've made has been about the economy being paralyzed. Either you or I have apparently dropped acid.
    But, most importantly, how will all of this affect our opinions of and progress with the equally controversial topic of elderly fall training science?
    More Harder to Kill Evidence

  7. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollis View Post
    Live from New York and two martini's deep, this thread has jumped the shark.

    Seriously, "Amazing Polly?" is the source materal.

    All the hysteria you need is right here in this thread.

    It's never just maybe electing a game show host was not a good idea... I know I know #TDS

    The 'not the governments job' stuff is incredible. You mean not the American government, THE logistics and supply chain powerhouse of the world, could maybe prepare some PPE two months ago when it was blinking red? Biggest govt failure of our lifetimes.

    No, instead Fort Worth is going to commandeer your living room. BFD call me when it happens.

    Starting Strength resonated because it sloughed off off all the fitness bs and boiled it down to the essence.

    But a lot people here got their jodhpurs tight going full Cirque du Soleil+Riverdance double header to justify some seriously wacky ideas.

    Give me a break.

    The best case scenario is you all are spared by our example.
    See, Bruno? I'll even post this drunken blather.

  8. #638
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    Factors we should consider: this virus survives on copper, stainless steel, cardboard and plastic for up to 3 days in some cases. On the cruise ship, they discovered virus surviving beyond 17 days on many surfaces. This means anything we come into contact with is potentially contaminated. This would include food packaging and perhaps, in some cases, the food itself. We are hardly going to slow this virus down by destroying an economy we will need in order to continue to fight the virus.

  9. #639
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    Yngvi, I have posted lots of evidence of equipment shortages in the United States and elsewhere - PPE being the most important (and wholly ignored by you), but also ICU space and ventilators. 80 is a substantial, certainly higher than average, number of ventilators.

    Since you can't fathom keeping a few weeks of resources (lest you be gripped by unproven projections of shortage!), I hope the upcoming recession doesn't hit you too hard. That's what I think will happen with month-long lockdowns. Not a depression, defined as over 2 years of sustained decline.

  10. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Kaul View Post
    That's what I think will happen with month-long lockdowns. Not a depression, defined as over 2 years of sustained decline.
    You think that a 30% drop in GDP is not a depression unless it happens over 2 years? What do you call it if it happens in one quarter? I really hope you are either very wealthy or being taken care of by somebody who is, because you're about to learn some new definitions.

    Also: Just a moment...

    I withdraw my bet with the doctor. They were like us all along.

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