Questions from a Former Runner Questions from a Former Runner - Page 3

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Thread: Questions from a Former Runner

  1. #21
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    Nov 2018
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    • wichita falls texas december seminar 2020
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    As a runner AND a doctor (two strikes against me for Rip), I'll speak out in defense of running for mediocre lifters AND lifting for mediocre runners.

    First, the heart.
    The adaptations of the heart to running and weightlifting are essentially opposite, and the nature of these adaptations are pretty intuitive.
    -The runner's heart has to pump more blood for a longer time. In response, the left ventricle (LV) remodels to a larger cavity,
    with maybe a little increase in muscle thickness.
    -The lifter's heart really doesn't have to adapt as much (due to less "time under stress" (think about your
    work/rest ratio)), but it adapts to a much higher pressure load.
    -in response to the pressure (not so much volume) load, the LV muscle gets thicker, and maybe the cavity grows a little.
    Rowers, I figure, are somewhere in the middle of strength/endurance. I have looked EVERYWHERE to try and find articles describing
    the difference in cardiac adaptations of rowers vs runners, but to no avail.
    Which is better from a cardiac standpoint, between runners and and lifters? If I have read aright, probably the running, but both are a
    damn sight better than the nothing that most people do.
    Honestly, I suspect the rowers have us both beat, but no data to back that up.

    Now, musculoskeletal.
    In contrast to conventional wisdom, there is no link between osteoarthritis and running. From there, it's a bit of a leap of faith, but I think it's a
    reasonable argument that running itself isn't injurious.
    Runners get hurt because running BADLY is injurious (or running on bad joints is injurious).
    The problem is that endurance adaptations are quick enough that your heart and lungs can write mileage or speed
    checks that your legs can't cash. When you fail a lift, it's just over. You can't lift it, and you put it down. More than likely, the
    only injury will be to your pride. If you try and run a distance you can't run...your form will suffer, but you can keep going.
    -that = running badly, and that = injury.

    I'll be honest, here. The only musculoskeletal benefit to running is that it allows you to keep running. It doesn't really have
    the carryover of lifting to other activities. If you'd rather bike or stairmaster a couple of times a week for 20 minutes, that's fine. I think you
    should, because I think it's good for you, and you're never going to be Kirk Karwoski

    I run because I like to run, and I lift because I'm never going to be Meb Keflezighi.

    I apologize if this is disjointed. I'm on call and tired. I'll try and clean it up later.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
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    Relapsed runner here. One point that gets missed in the “either/or” debate over lifting and running is that the interference is asymmetrical. Running lots of miles interferes with strength more than lifting weights interferes with running. I suspect that barbell lifts actually improve running performance for most recreational runners. My anecdotal experience:

    At age 32 I ran a 3:23 marathon very skinny with no lifting on classic high mileage marathon training. After that race I bought SS, stopped running, did the NLP and gained 50 lbs, and continued to lift and not run until I was 37. During this time I used the advanced novice and intermediate programs in PP. I realized that I missed running and started again, but kept lifting. At age 40 I ran a marathon in 3:09 at a bodyweight that was 30 lbs more than when I was 32. All the time I continued to squat, DL, and press 1 – 3 times per week, depending on training load. Since then I have completed multiple 100 mile mountain ultramarathons. In those events strength is even more important than the shorter events because one of the biggest reasons for DNFing is leg Musculo-skeletal fatigue.

    Obviously, there are tradeoffs. My lifts went down when I added running back in but most of my novice gains remain. I am a faster runner at 43 running and lifting than I was just running at 32. And I am way stronger. For most runners there is no reason not to also train with barbells. The low hanging novice gains are there for the taking – and if that is all a runner ever does – those novice gains radically improve quality of life.

  3. #23
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    Jul 2019
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    Hi. My name is Frank and I was a runner, cyclist, and swimmer. I've now been clean for 9 months, but I do like to sprint in the pool from time to time. I had chronically high blood pressure (150/90 on a good day) as a runner. My neck hurt all the time. I am 6'2". Running 20-30 miles/week I weighed 173 pounds. 45 pounds later, and still growing, I still have to take 320 mg of Valsartan daily, but my BP has been checked weekly for the last 3 months in a row at 120/80. My best ever.

    My anecdotal, personal opinion is that heavy cardio creates a lot of systemic inflammation in some people. Couple this with the idea that my version of strength training for legs was Bulgarian Split Squats AMRAP 2x20lb. kettlebells and that the rest of my lifting was inspired by a mostly fake YouTube personality whose brand ends in "X." I stayed chronically sore, injured, and, for some strange reason, my BP was always high. My doctor said there's a good chance I had a small TIA at the age of 35, but encouraged me to keep up with my cardio and stay away from heavy weights. Instead, I gained 45 pounds of mostly muscle and quit running. My doctor: Not happy. My blood pressure: Quite Good.

    P.S. - Just out of pure curiosity I wanted to see what my 100m sprint was after gaining 45 pounds. I was never a speed demon, but I went from 1:35 as my previous best to 1:23 (no diving platform - just pushing off the wall) with the only aquatic training in the last 6 months being my NLP. For anyone who has ever swum, 12 seconds on the 100m is a BIG deal. To do it 45 pounds heavier is unthinkable to me. I don't see many swimmers come through here because I guess they think they have to swim with loaded barbells on their backs, but hopefully this will turn up in a Google search somewhere and lead the next Michael Phelps down the right path.

  4. #24
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    Feb 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_B View Post
    P.S. - Just out of pure curiosity I wanted to see what my 100m sprint was after gaining 45 pounds. I was never a speed demon, but I went from 1:35 as my previous best to 1:23 (no diving platform - just pushing off the wall) with the only aquatic training in the last 6 months being my NLP. For anyone who has ever swum, 12 seconds on the 100m is a BIG deal. To do it 45 pounds heavier is unthinkable to me. I don't see many swimmers come through here because I guess they think they have to swim with loaded barbells on their backs, but hopefully this will turn up in a Google search somewhere and lead the next Michael Phelps down the right path.
    I cut my strokes by three per 25 yards, and that was two months ago with 100 pounds less on the squat. I'll be hitting the pool again in a couple of weeks as my NLP is close to being finished. I'd say it pays off to take four to six months for the NLP with no additional work, you make fast gains which come in handy for any sport.

  5. #25
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    Dec 2013
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    Indiana
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_B View Post
    Hi. My name is Frank and I was a runner, cyclist, and swimmer. I've now been clean for 9 months, ...
    Hiii Frank.

  6. #26
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    Oct 2017
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    Uk
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    Were you high when you wrote this ? I am not a runner and never have been, but there is plenty of value in being ď in shapeĒ. I was sedentary for 50 years and lifting 10. I am clearly stronger than most 60 year olds and in better overall health than most. Being strong has little practical use ( over a runners ). My friend is 64 and a runner. We moved my daughter ourselves - Lading and unloading 2 24 foot trucks - I had no discernible advantage in work capacity. Doing yard work, projects around the house etc. I donít get fatigued but I suspect neither do they. The only advantage In real life I would have is actually lifting heavy stuff which doesnít happen that often in real life.

    Not hedonistic ? We will spend ridiculous sums of money and time on coaches , training , equipment, logging, debating, filming , etc. to squat 400 versus 350. For what purpose other than ego ?
    I am not dumping on strength training but ďmy cult is better than your cult ď is silly thinking. I happen to prefer my cult but wonít dump on running.
    Hedonism isnít the pursuit of a value, but the pursuit of the feeling that results from gaining a value without actually gaining a value. Spending money to achieve an objective value isnít hedonism.

    I was a runner, itís an addiction, I didnít achieve anything objective once I could run a couple of miles. I was running over 75 miles per week at one point The running produced the high and thatís why I did it. I would prefer not to lift, but I see the value in getting stronger and staying stronger into my old age. As a runner I was weak, I got frequent colds and lots of nagging injuries. I donít define lifting or running as cults-pretty weird to think that. I donít think Iím in competition with my former running self either, nor other runners.

    Really, if you are of the opinion that strength isnít an advantage, then I donít know why you are bothering to lift, just sit on the couch.

  7. #27
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    Jul 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan Dragisic View Post
    I cut my strokes by three per 25 yards, and that was two months ago with 100 pounds less on the squat. I'll be hitting the pool again in a couple of weeks as my NLP is close to being finished. I'd say it pays off to take four to six months for the NLP with no additional work, you make fast gains which come in handy for any sport.
    Shaving strokes is, in my opinion, better than shaving time. Not only will you cut time, but youíll do so efficiently. My pushes off the wall are the most explosive thing Iíve noticed.

    I still have room to go on my NLP, but it was interesting to see where I stood. Itíll be neat to see where I am at the end.

  8. #28
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    Mar 2011
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    Dubai
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    5

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    Running = hedonism. So what? Feeling good, is good enough, as Sgt Elias once said.

    Without getting all non-binary, surely it is possible to identify as both a runner AND as a lifter.

    Increased capacity across broad time and modal domains? (Joke!)

  9. #29
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    Feb 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_B View Post
    Shaving strokes is, in my opinion, better than shaving time. Not only will you cut time, but youíll do so efficiently. My pushes off the wall are the most explosive thing Iíve noticed. .
    Flip turns too. Canít wait to start doing butterfly

  10. #30
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    Jul 2019
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    starting strength coach development program
    I think in strength or in endurance, once you go past the point of moderation, you're not really conferring any sort of immediate health benefit. I'm pretty sure I heard Rip mention somewhere that being strong is like having money in the bank.

    I could see true value in having a really high deadlift with a shitty health prognosis - especially cancer. My grandfather deadlifted in the high 400's in the early 1960's. My mom said he pulled 500 once and they had a little party with some of the other neighborhood kids that lifted with him. He stopped lifting 5-6 years later after a carnival ride hit him and almost killed him. When he died of cancer in 2002, you would never know he was sick. I can still remember his Popeye forearms when he was lying in the hospital bed. He truly did not look like a man dying of cancer, and carried himself rather well until about the last week of his life.

    I don't think someone running 5k's on the weekend would wish they'd trained for the 50 mile ultra in hopes that it might help them deal with a shitty prognosis. A regret to have missed an opportunity in life, sure, but I think strength offers one a better chance at quality of life when the chips are on the table.

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