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Thread: "A Time for Choosing"

  1. #61
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    [QUOTE=Mark Rippetoe;1802556]How about you telling us what you think libertarianism is, so we can decide if we agree?[/]

    Us, We. The collective.

  2. #62
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    From my understanding, many libertarians in the US see a place for government, but it has very limited power over the individual.

    So, the government would facilitate national defense, maintain law and order between people (but not infringe upon the individual sovereignty), maintain public utilities like interstates.

    For this type of libertarian, only consumption taxes and tariffs are acceptable to facilitate these limited functions. Property taxes and income taxes are an infringement upon individual sovereignty.

    There is no inherent morality built into this system, so an individual can overdose on heroine in front of your apartment and you can let him die in his choice.

    So, to make this system function well, some sort of moral system needs to be grafted in. The Founders understood this and grafted Christian morals and ethics into the system, (though in recent days it appears society has rejected that graft).

    So it’s not anarcho-capitalism. But perhaps not the truest sense of libertarianism either. Perhaps this would be considered conservative libertarian or constitutional libertarian.

  3. #63
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    [QUOTE=Nockian;1802574]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    How about you telling us what you think libertarianism is, so we can decide if we agree?[/]

    Us, We. The collective.
    Perfect. Thanks.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by KShedd View Post
    From my understanding, many libertarians in the US see a place for government, but it has very limited power over the individual.

    So, the government would facilitate national defense, maintain law and order between people (but not infringe upon the individual sovereignty), maintain public utilities like interstates.

    For this type of libertarian, only consumption taxes and tariffs are acceptable to facilitate these limited functions. Property taxes and income taxes are an infringement upon individual sovereignty.

    There is no inherent morality built into this system, so an individual can overdose on heroine in front of your apartment and you can let him die in his choice.

    So, to make this system function well, some sort of moral system needs to be grafted in. The Founders understood this and grafted Christian morals and ethics into the system, (though in recent days it appears society has rejected that graft).

    So it’s not anarcho-capitalism. But perhaps not the truest sense of libertarianism either. Perhaps this would be considered conservative libertarian or constitutional libertarian.
    They don’t know either, so I wouldn’t get too concerned.

  5. #65
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    Objectivists do not explain. They italicize.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Le Comte View Post
    Nockian, correct, Im not a libertarian, but I think I at least understand the view point. I wad interested in your strong reaction to it and its very rare to meet an objectivist in New Zealand and have a chance to discuss their views.
    Jovan has provided clarity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan Dragisic View Post
    Yeah, no government. That is what it means. The rest is conjecture. I don't mind it though, carry on.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Objectivists do not explain. They italicize.
    You want me to explain your support for libertarian anarchy ? I can’t, it is completely misguided and irrational. It’s like watching a vandal smashing up an artwork and it provokes within me, a very powerful sense of disgust and horror. Government, as bad as it is in this mixed economy, is a thousand times more preferable than anarchists.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    My .45 Colt prevents anyone from initiating force. My attorney obtains justice if force is initiated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    You want me to explain your support for libertarian anarchy ? I can’t, it is completely misguided and irrational. It’s like watching a vandal smashing up an artwork and it provokes within me, a very powerful sense of disgust and horror. Government, as bad as it is in this mixed economy, is a thousand times more preferable than anarchists.
    Rip's own definition presupposes some level of government, though, and I think the vast majority of libertarians do as well. Calling it anarchy is a rather obvious strawman.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    You want me to explain your support for libertarian anarchy ? I can’t, it is completely misguided and irrational. It’s like watching a vandal smashing up an artwork and it provokes within me, a very powerful sense of disgust and horror. Government, as bad as it is in this mixed economy, is a thousand times more preferable than anarchists.
    He owns a gym franchise, what makes you think someone who does this wants anarchy.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    What happens when you don’t have a Government ? That picture is clear enough surely ? Failed states prove it. Warlords and gangs- Mad Max. Who will be free to trade and who’s property will be safe ? Capitalism cannot flourish without a Government. Trade will still occur, but it will be down to the whims of the gangs and warlords.
    Just because that's the only thing you can imagine doesn't make it true. Some people have more imagination than you do: Law without the State | Mises Institute
    Also, it is not purely theoretic: Medieval Iceland and the Absence of Government | Mises Institute

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