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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Fascinating. Strength by itself isn't enough? Both strength and skill are necessary for competitive sports? Tell us more.
    OK something got off the rails somewhere. I was just clarifying what I posted. Faldo was a long hitter in his day. Not the longest, but he was out there. Was he strong enough? I don't know, but he didn't swing as hard *relative to his max* as guys do today because there was a much bigger penalty for missing the sweet spot(or in some cases, the ball nearly completely). Guys today go after it all the time because with the large heads, you really can't miss the ball, and off-center hits are not punished nearly as bad. So there's no need to hold back and control the swing very much.

    Somehow someone took that to mean I said strength didn't matter or some such thing. There is most certainly a benefit to additional strength. Shots out of the rough, plain old endurance, you name it. Equipment has changed the equation though. For better or worse, but it has changed things. One could actually argue the equipment tips the balance towards strength over skill compared to many years ago. Putting old equipment back out there wouldn't negate the benefits of strength in any way, but it would change the way, off the tee, you could put it to best use.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    But you said he didn't "need" to be any stronger, not actually knowing how strong he was, as though being stronger would hurt his game.
    God no, I never meant to imply being stronger would hurt his game. I don't believe that, jeesh, I'm here for that very purpose, well than and so I can put my socks on in the morning without having to go sock fishing like I used. Trying to not have to take Enbrel. But that's all another story....No I have all the books, been to seminars and training, and have enjoyed hundreds of hours in the basement becoming harder to kill. Man don't tell me that, I'm wasting a fucking lot of time then.

    I could be dead wrong but I look at a Tom Brady, a Joe Montana, a Wayne Gretzky, Hank Aaron, a Nick Faldo, the .0001% and believe they have a requisite baseline of strength? either naturally or developed somehow. Maybe not, and I'm dead wrong.

    And Golf is tricky and fickle. Again, not arguing about trying to get stronger but there are more cases in golf of world #1's who tried to get even better and fell off the planet. Duval, Padraig, Ian Baker Finch, Janzen, Weir, dozens who just lost it. I'm not saying it was because they tried to get stronger, but they tried to make changes. At the elite level it's a very very tenuous fickle game. So I just don't agree with a blanket statement that he would have been better. He might have been. But he's like 10th on the all time list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefan75 View Post
    OK something got off the rails somewhere. I was just clarifying what I posted. Faldo was a long hitter in his day. Not the longest, but he was out there. Was he strong enough? I don't know, but he didn't swing as hard *relative to his max* as guys do today because there was a much bigger penalty for missing the sweet spot(or in some cases, the ball nearly completely). Guys today go after it all the time because with the large heads, you really can't miss the ball, and off-center hits are not punished nearly as bad. So there's no need to hold back and control the swing very much.

    Somehow someone took that to mean I said strength didn't matter or some such thing. There is most certainly a benefit to additional strength. Shots out of the rough, plain old endurance, you name it. Equipment has changed the equation though. For better or worse, but it has changed things. One could actually argue the equipment tips the balance towards strength over skill compared to many years ago. Putting old equipment back out there wouldn't negate the benefits of strength in any way, but it would change the way, off the tee, you could put it to best use.
    "One could actually argue the equipment tips the balance towards strength over skill compared to many years ago."

    This is what I was saying. Skill was far more important years ago because of the ball primarily. If you misshit that thing with any spin it was gone. So guys like Faldo would hit 8 irons 135.... The penalty for a misshit was far greater. And misshits happen, to everyone. The game is more about your bad shots than your good ones.

  3. #33
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    We've got a long way to go, Jay.

  4. #34
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    JayLivsey is offline Owner, Starting Strength Denver
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    We've got a long way to go, Jay.
    Good lord, I donít even know where to begin with all of this. It ainít that complicated. For the record, this is the first and only place Iíve ever heard anyone refer to Nick Faldo as big and strong....

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    We've got a long way to go, Jay.
    From what I'm reading on this thread it sounds like some are forgetting or ignoring the message of developing strength AND skill simultaneously. I've not read any recommendations on here to reduce skill practice or replace it with strength training. I think someone like Dechambeau has only scratched the surface in terms of testing the hypothesis that golf performance can be improved through increasing strength, but so far he is the most prominent example and the results speak for themselves. Like any logical professional would, I'm quite certain he spent just as much time working on his game during his bulk up as he did prior to adding the weight and distance. If he was able to create such power and distance just by adding 40 pounds of bodyweight and suboptimal strength training, what implication might that have for the average skinny tour player or high level amateur that instead trains the four lifts and isn't afraid to gain weight, while still putting in the same work on the skill side?

  6. #36
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    starting strength coach development program
    "The ability to recruit large numbers of motor units into contraction instantly is largely a function of genetic endowment. "

    Probably explains why the kid who finished 2nd today at the Masters, Will Zalatoris, with his 6'2" 145lb frame hits the ball 325yds. He might not even weigh 145lbs.

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