Is there any reason to do an abs excercise?

[BenK]

I would argue that there is a reason to do direct ab work, but that, unless you want to be a Fitness Model, you don't normally need a lot of it.
I recall a story by Dave Tate where he was unable to unrack a squat in competition because his abs were too weak. After that, he began working his abs 4 days a week, 2 days heavy and 2 days light. Now, this squat was a weight that few people will ever lift, and it was a geared lift too. But it does show the importance of ab strength.

Athletes in grappling and throwing sports IMO should do some ab work that is NOT isometric, because they are using their abs non-isometrically. In other words, the barbell lifts alone are insufficient for training their abs for their sport.
Lifters should do some ab work that IS isometric because that is the primary way they are using their abs. But most of them who aren't in Dave's situation won't need a lot of it since the abs are already working this way when they lift.
Having said that, the best ways to train the abs indirectly in my experience are heavy overhead work, front squats, and carries like sandbag carries and farmer's walks. So if you're already doing plenty of that, then direct ab work is probably a waste of time.

[Soule]

I would argue that there is a reason to do direct ab work, but that, unless you want to be a Fitness Model, you don't normally need a lot of it.
I recall a story by Dave Tate where he was unable to unrack a squat in competition because his abs were too weak. After that, he began working his abs 4 days a week, 2 days heavy and 2 days light. Now, this squat was a weight that few people will ever lift, and it was a geared lift too. But it does show the importance of ab strength.

Athletes in grappling and throwing sports IMO should do some ab work that is NOT isometric, because they are using their abs non-isometrically. In other words, the barbell lifts alone are insufficient for training their abs for their sport.
Lifters should do some ab work that IS isometric because that is the primary way they are using their abs. But most of them who aren't in Dave's situation won't need a lot of it since the abs are already working this way when they lift.
Having said that, the best ways to train the abs indirectly in my experience are heavy overhead work, front squats, and carries like sandbag carries and farmer's walks. So if you're already doing plenty of that, then direct ab work is probably a waste of time.

Hi! Bjj purple belt here! Are you under the impression that taking my squat from 315 to 500 didn’t improve my performance on the mats?

Getting stronger with the compound lifts is getting stronger in every plane of motion. Practicing your sport allows you to display that strength efficiently through all movement patterns that you drill and any position that may find yourself in. There is no need to train abs for grappling — you only need to get strong in general and practice your sport.

[Jovan Dragisic]

Maybe the appraising glances from unfamiliar women is worth dieting down every once in a while?

It certainly is, but based on strength training and glances experience for the past year, push your squat past 300 before you do anything else.

[8odin8]

Women are most attracted to men that can provide a highly secure nest for the reproduction and provisioning of healthy offspring. This sexually reproductive dynamic is always at play even in homosexual relationships. To provide a "secure nest" for healthy offspring , many attributes come in to play, from personality, intelligence, to bodily health, to ability to provide for offspring, to bonding, support system, communication, etc. and all of these partner attributes have to be measured against what the other partner brings to the table....for instance the male partner could be big, strong, protective, make good money,etc. but be a poor emotional communicator which could jeopardize the pair bonding and if taken further jeopardize the relationship; however, the female partner could be such an excellent emotional communicator that she can navigate thru those times these skills become paramount and thus she could marry a man with sub par skills in that level. So, she only needs to find a man that has those skills in those areas that she lacks ....but for the average woman what she mostly desires is a man that REALLY desires her....that he can clearly communicate this desire but never in a dangerous manner ( because then he would be a threat to her and her offspring)....that he can clearly secure, protect and provide for her and the nest and then because the pair bond must last so long to successfully raise human children...to be fun...so there you go....women mostly desire men that really desire them and are funny, and have the skills necessary to maintain pair bonding, and to secure and provide for her anf the nest....Ultra dominant , rich, or ultra good looking men are actually not that attractive to women....I HAVE BEEN CURSED WITH THIS SO I KNOW, LOL.....because the woman feels threatened that the male can easily stray and ultimately provide for another nest...leaving her and her nestlings destitute...however, she may still fall for these types because they have so many of the desired attributes...so many woman will have a one night stand with a stallion to steal his seed and then run back home to her little pooh bear because of her pooh bear's better ability in maintaining long term relationships

I have not read something so super-gay and patronizing in a long time.

[Satch12879]

Athletes in grappling and throwing sports IMO should do some ab work that is NOT isometric, because they are using their abs non-isometrically. In other words, the barbell lifts alone are insufficient for training their abs for their sport.

This is training versus practice confusion, again, I'm afraid.

Give us an example.

[BenK]

Hi! Bjj purple belt here! Are you under the impression that taking my squat from 315 to 500 didn’t improve my performance on the mats?

Getting stronger with the compound lifts is getting stronger in every plane of motion. Practicing your sport allows you to display that strength efficiently through all movement patterns that you drill and any position that may find yourself in. There is no need to train abs for grappling — you only need to get strong in general and practice your sport.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I don't really participate in sports, so I don't have a similar experience and it made sense to me when I heard coaches say that direct ab training is helpful since conventional barbell training is sagittal plane-dominant and that the abs are mostly working isometrically. Rip actually made a point about ab training similar to mine somewhere on this forum, a long time ago. He wasn't saying that it is necessary, but was answering a question about how to train them for someone who insisted on doing so.

[BenK]

This is training versus practice confusion, again, I'm afraid.

Give us an example.

Let's take the throwers. Many throwers use exercises like rotational med ball throws. It make sense to do this, but you are right that we should ask how necessary it is. How many of these throwers are actually strong? What happens to the performance of throwers who don't do a lot of ab work but get a lot stronger at the barbell lifts? Do throwers who are actually strong and are no longer progressing steadily on the barbell lifts get better results when they include lots of direct ab work? I don't know.

[Eric Schexnayder]

Homoeroticism and dick size aside, if you just want your abs to burn like mad for a while then try front squats on a light squat day. Be prepared to deal with the DOMS the next two days.

[Soule]

Let's take the throwers. Many throwers use exercises like rotational med ball throws. It make sense to do this, but you are right that we should ask how necessary it is. How many of these throwers are actually strong? What happens to the performance of throwers who don't do a lot of ab work but get a lot stronger at the barbell lifts? Do throwers who are actually strong and are no longer progressing steadily on the barbell lifts get better results when they include lots of direct ab work? I don't know.

Trust me when i say that I’ve made the mistake of sports specific training for BJJ before learning more about general adaptation syndrome and how the adaptation of strength applies to everything you “practice.”

I’ve been a jiu jitsu player with razor abs (i trained them every day) at 190lbs. Now I’m a player at a bodyweight of 240, still have abs (bigger, stronger ones) and I don’t train abs. I still move as fast and as well as i did at 190, but now i have strength and mass that is hard to contend with, even against more skilled opponents.

Only downside is my damn adductors are so big now that its more difficult to slap a triangle on someone or play closed guard against fat guys, but that’s never been my preferred style anyway.

[Smyth]

I think we’re going to have to shut this whole thread down until we figure what the fuck is going on.